200 tdi engine and gearbox question

[CJRH]

I want to go down the 200 tdi engine route in my 2a but I also want to change the gearbox. I know that I need a LT77 and I am happy for it to be permanent 4 wheel drive. Is there any difference between the LT77 from a Defender and a Disco? Can I just buy a 200 tdi and gearbox from a Disco? Will the gearbox mounts line up etc?

Cheers

Chris

[Gazzar]

HI Chris,

Don't know much about this but here is what I remember form my research:

There are (at least) two types of TDI200 - defender and discovery.

I think the defender has a High mounted turbo and a low injection pump and the discovery has a lower turbo and a higher injection pump.

If you have a SWB then I believe the disco tdi is the best fit - swapping the block mountings from a diesel (and probably a petrol) 2286 wshould allow you to fit the engine without changing the chassis mountings. I believe it isn't easy but dooable. You may need to hack battery boxes and the like, and making an exhaust is also a job but it is doable.

For a LWB the turbo most likely will hit the chassis rail, although some seem to have managed to avoid this.

I don't know if the defender engine is better, I'd be concerned that the pump would hit something or not allow mountings or something.

What I'm doing is fitting a defender manifold to a disco engine, to allow me fit the disco engine into the LWB (one day anyway).

As for the gearbox the I don't know much about the LT77 as I'm fitting a R380, but the disco gearbox sits a long way back, mainly because it has a much longer bellhousing (6 inches or so) so it won't fit unless you change the bellhousing and input shaft. Even at that I believe the selector mechanism is in the wrong place.

The transfer box, the LT230, is shorter than the series box at the front, (longer main gearbox) so the front propshaft has to be longer - which means it fouls the bellhousing crossmember, which needs to be scalloped.

Finally the front axle doesn't have CV joints in the swivels so if running permanent 4X4 then the tyre wear will increase, there will be a "lump" in the steering wheel every time you turn. Fit a stage 1 v8 axle to avoid this.

Search and research before you decide what to do = lots on this forum, ORRP and landroveraddicts, also try teri wakemans site for ideas.

G.

[kingdong]

I want to go down the 200 tdi engine route in my 2a but I also want to change the gearbox. I know that I need a LT77 and I am happy for it to be permanent 4 wheel drive. Is there any difference between the LT77 from a Defender and a Disco? Can I just buy a 200 tdi and gearbox from a Disco? Will the gearbox mounts line up etc?

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris

i am going to be doing this my self but whant to keep the s2a box as i don't whant to be draggin or pushing the front axle round all the time.

cheers graham.

s2a 88

[CJRH]

Cheers for that Gazzar, there is so much info on this in different topics that it gets confusing! I guess what I need to know is what works best! 200 tdi engine will be from a Disco as they are the cheapest to get hold of, gearbox is where I'm not sure. I really want a five speed box and also my 2a box is knackered. Stage 1 V8 axels are like rocking horse plop......... So would I need the gear box and transfer box from a Defender and if so which ones?

Chris

[Tonk]

any 4 pot defender lt77 will do the job. you'll have to chop about your mounts to fit it.

if you stay with series diffs then work out which lt230 (transfer box) you need to run to get your gearings right. i suspect disco 1.22 or some rangies 1.001 will be correct (depending on tyre sizes).

the later the lt77 the stronger it will be, larger bearings/gears etc.

[Jon White]

You need a defender LT77 as the gear lever will be too far back if you use a disco one, plus the disco bellhousing is much much longer than the defender one.

Transfer boxes are all the same externally so either will fit. The only difference is the ratios. You'll need to chop mounts, crossmemebers and propshafts about to make it all fit.

Jon

[Gazzar]

Chris,

Reviewing the above the ideal for a SWB would be:

disco tdi200

Late defender LT77

LT230 from Disco - avoiding the later Disco transfer boxes as some of them have different innards (search for this problem) for the higher ratio.

To avoid the permanent 4x4 problem convert lt230 to selectable 4x4 (search the forum)

You will need to hack the gearbox mountings and bellhouse crossmember. Also the battery box may have to be shifted.

You will need to change propshafts.

Your rear diff and halfshafts will have to healthy, otherwise you'll brake something (roverdiff).

And, most importantly, you will have to ensure your brakes are up to the extra power and speed.

You can see why people suggest you get a defender!

If you have a petrol engine then you'll have to plumb in the diesel return line and consider extra filters etc.

Finding space for the intercooler is also fun. I'm going for power steering so I'll have some space under the headlights.

Best of luck,

G.

[Jon White]

Thats what I'm running.

Diff ratio will depend on what size tyres you're running. You migth be better off swapping to 3.54 diffs if you're going to be running anything much less than 33" tall.

In my SWB I'm running Disco 200tdi, late defender Lt77, 1.22 disco transfer box, 4.75 diffs and 33" tyres and find its about right for most of the pottling about that I do. Mine is really used as an off road toy, and I dont do many miles in it, and those that I do are predominantly at less than 60mph. If I was doing more road miles I'd be inclined to change the gearing a tad.

Be aware that with 4.7 diffs low ratio is uber low. 1st low is kinda crawl up the side of mount everest on tickover low.....

Jon

[CJRH]

Thanks for the reply’s everyone. What would the 4.75 diffs come from?

Cheers Chris

[Gazzar]

4.7 is the series standard ratio, isn't it? 3.54 is the coilsprung modern things, 3.54 turns of the propshaft to turn the wheel once or something like that, whereas the series needs another 1andabit to turn the wheel.

I reckon Jons gearing is good/ideal, low when you need it, not too fast in high.

If you need speed then fit an overdrive!

Remember the brakes!

G.

[Jon White]

The 4.75's are Kam uprated ones cos I got fed up of breaking standard 4.7 series ones!

Jon

[Gazzar]

Hi Jon,

Thread hijack (a bit)

Would a sailsbury be better able to cope with the torque? Or would you know?

Reason I ask is that is what is currently fitted to my (permanently stalled) build.

G

[FridgeFreezer]

Would a sailsbury be better able to cope with the torque? Or would you know?

Yes.

[Jon White]

Yes, but i think you'd run into problems if it was on a SWB, as the rear propshaft would be getting silly short!

Jon

[Gazzar]

No worries!

LWB

And a variety pf prop shafts kicking about to try (including a LWB 6cylinder).

Thanks,

G.

[CJRH]

Jon, do you have the issue that Gazzar was talking about?

"the front axle doesn't have CV joints in the swivels so if running permanent 4X4 then the tyre wear will increase, there will be a "lump" in the steering wheel every time you turn"

Cheers Chris

[Jon White]

Re the tyre wear, with the series in RWD mode on the road it tends to wear the rears out first. With permanent 4wd it should wear all tyres more or less equally. I cant see that overall wear will be any different.

As to the lump in the steering - not that I've noticed. It makes such a difference anyway, and the box is sooooo much nicer than the series one. Frankly unless you have FWH the front shafts are turning anyway so I cant really see that having drive on them can make much difference. I know of a couple of other people running series in permanent 4wd without any issues.

I dont do alot of miles in my truck anyway, so frankly it doesnt bother me anyway.

IMHO the commercially available part time 4wd kit is pretty carp. See the recent post from minivin for more details, plus why they cannot supply the kit without the utterly useless defender fitment FWH I cannot fathom!

Jon