SteveBo Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I have read the threads relating to recovery points and there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best option. My TD5 110 has a towbar fitted with two stays/braces that run from the lower edge of the towbar plate to the chassis members where I would expect to fit Jate rings (where the tie down rings are). I could use Jate rings but suspect that the towbar stays may make the chasis member too wide to fit a normal Jate ring. Since the stays are approx 10mm wide and fit to the chassis members could I just replace the ball hitch with a ball and pin coupling and use the pin as a recovery point? The stays should pass the load thorugh to the chassis. The kerb weight of a 110 is just over two tonne and with a full load this would probably be nearer three tonne to tow. Assuming I am only slightly stuck i.e. expedition stuck rather than extreme off-roading stuck the pulling load is still going to be more than the 3.5 tonne of a normal towbar rating. I could fit a 5 tonne (32mm pin) coupling which would use 4 bolts. However, I also have a cycle rack that uses a towball spacer to fit which relies on a 2 bolt fitting. Question is, if the ball / pin coupling is viable for recovery could I get away with the 3.5 tonne 2 bolt type? What can these fittings cope with before failure? How big is the load margin? Might be spending some money at Eastnor... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlykepower Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Steve, I have a standard towing set-up, and I fitted Jate rings with no problem. In addition to that, I am contemplating getting a NATO hitch, but not for recovery purposes, I am toying with the idea of building an overland trailer from a Sankey chassis. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 There are wider Jate Rings available as a standard Land Rover part. Run a search and the part numbers for both types will come up for you. Not sure on the availability, though. If you have a tow bar fitted, it means that the 4 bolt fixings are available on the rear crossmember - no?? If that is the case, you could fit a ring type affair that is being discussed HERE with the aid of some suitable spreader plates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Steve, I turned the brace bars over & swapped them to the otherside & scalloped the edge nearest the tank for clearance, my rear JATE rings fit in the standard place with the tow hitch brace bars on the inside nearest the chassis to act as spacer for the JATE rings http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?act=Atta...st&id=11333 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?act=atta...st&id=11332 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBo Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hi, Thanks for the feedback. I heard that fitting Jate rings required spacers so hopefully, if I drop the tie down rings a set of Jates should fit with the tow bar ties. I'll measure up before I leave for Eastnor. I did think my auxiliary fule tank might make it difficult to remove the bolts but I think it should just be posssible to get them out. My tow bar is a standard LR part but the main plate covers part of the 4 holes in the rear cross member so fitting a recovery ring would require machining the plate. Not an ideal bit of design by LR. Thanks for the link to your pictures Ralph, I see you have a ball and pin as well. Looks like 3.5 tonne. Have you ever used it for a recovery? Out of interest, do the Jate rings move freely or are they bolted up tight? If tight, does recovery cause any movement and strain on the bolts? Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have read the threads relating to recovery points and there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best option.My TD5 110 has a towbar fitted with two stays/braces that run from the lower edge of the towbar plate to the chassis members where I would expect to fit Jate rings (where the tie down rings are). I could use Jate rings but suspect that the towbar stays may make the chasis member too wide to fit a normal Jate ring. Since the stays are approx 10mm wide and fit to the chassis members could I just replace the ball hitch with a ball and pin coupling and use the pin as a recovery point? The stays should pass the load thorugh to the chassis. The kerb weight of a 110 is just over two tonne and with a full load this would probably be nearer three tonne to tow. Assuming I am only slightly stuck i.e. expedition stuck rather than extreme off-roading stuck the pulling load is still going to be more than the 3.5 tonne of a normal towbar rating. I could fit a 5 tonne (32mm pin) coupling which would use 4 bolts. However, I also have a cycle rack that uses a towball spacer to fit which relies on a 2 bolt fitting. Question is, if the ball / pin coupling is viable for recovery could I get away with the 3.5 tonne 2 bolt type? What can these fittings cope with before failure? How big is the load margin? Might be spending some money at Eastnor... Steve Hi Steve, You are right, there isn’t a general consensus on recovery points, as many people have different preferences and or different requirements. I will just raise a few points which may ‘add to the mix’ as it were. 1. Rear Jate rings are very effective for rear recovery. But they are not always the most practical solution for being recovered by, particularly in adverse conditions. 2. Rear jate rings on a 110 are quite a long way under the vehicle, so attaching a bridle once you are stuck in a muddy hole is a right royal pain, and may require a lot of digging and lying in the mud or water to achieve (got a mask and snorkle?). 3. You must use a bridle to spread the load as 1 jate ring shouldn’t be used on its own for anything more than light recovery, so you have 2 shackles to attach. 4. If you think you might get stuck, you can pre attach your bridle before you get into the deep stuff, but you have to remember to also thread the bridle through the eye of your recovery rope before attaching the bridle to the jate rings, as you should never join a recovery rope to a bridle with a shackle. 5. The trouble with pre attaching all this under the back of the Land Rover, is that it is now exposed to damage etc as you drive along, and you have to find some way of holding the bridle and recovery rope out of the way. You can always wind it round your spare on the door, but then you can’t open the door if you need to. 6. If you need to use the rope on the front, you first have to detach it from the rear jate rings. 7. Additionally, when jate rings are fitted, if you do the bolts up pretty tight and they get a bump when off roading, they will get pushed flat against the chassis rails and you won’t be able to move them away from the chassis in order to get the shackle through. 8. If you don’t do them up tight you can solve this problem BUT the tow bar stays are supposed to be bolted up tight as the friction of the stays clamped to the chassis rails increases the strength enormously compared to relying on the bolt shear strength only. Your standard UK type 2 bolt tow ball is more than adequate for standard off road recovery. It has a safe working load of 3.5 tons but has a breaking strain of much much more than that. It is an accepted recovery point by many off road clubs including the AWDC. There is a possibility of the rope slipping off the ball at extreme angles, ie when the vehicle is stuck in a hole and a tow vehicle is trying to pull the stuck vehicle ‘up and out’. Ideally it should not be used for a kinetic recovery when fitted in the standard upright position for the same reason. Your choice of a 3.5 ton pin coupling would be the most practical solution for your circumstances, is more than strong enough, as is the tow bar and bolt arrangement, and you avoid all the disadvantages of Jate rings outlined above. Hope this helps, Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBo Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Thanks Diff, I don't anticipate getting stuck in extreme conditions but you never know. I plan to attend a winch and recovery course once I have the basic kit installed (currently negotiating the winch with the wife since I still owe her a bathroom). I can see the mechanics of most of this but don't have much experience of it in use. I'll probably go with the ball/pin coupling first then see what else I need after I have some experience. I think the cost of a 5 tonne ball/pin will make it prohibitive and the 4 bolt fitting is not ideal. We were planning to go to North Africa at the end of this year but we may postpone for a year and tour NW Spain and Portugal instead. Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Steve, my JATE's move if I give them a hefty shove with my boot. I only use the jates/NATO hitch for rear recovery, ball/pin hitch for my 3 piece towbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 (currently negotiating the winch with the wife since I still owe her a bathroom) Tell her a bathroom is not much use for pulling a Land Rover out of a swamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 looking for advice (again) on attaching my jate rings. This is the towbar stay that goes from the plate to the chassis. Pictured is the section that bolts to the inside of the chassis. As you can see it has metal along the bottom which would mean that if I did attach a Jate ring it would be stuck in a forward position and if used in a recovery would pull against the stay. Would I be ok to remove the metal I have marked? Would this reduce in any great way the integrity of the towbar and the stay? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 see my photo links above I haven't modded those ends, just scalloped the angle to give clearance with the fuel tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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