ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I want to weld some mountings for the tree sliders(rock sliders) on my chassis-but as I know welding distorts the metal and more "soft" --respective it can be a weak point of chassis--I know that a lot of people had already welded their chassis,what can you say about...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Not really, a weld is as strong if not stronger than the parent metal. The thing to avoid is introducing point loads either in shear, tension or compression but that is more down to design of the bracket than the welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I have been thinking about this, slightly different way though... If you were to for example cut a chassis in half and weld it back together then you are going to create a point where it is stiff. I havent done this and wouldnt but would the welds not break when the chassis flexes in for example an axle twister situation? I know wouldnt weld them just straight end to end so you can get some more surface area to weld but i think it wouldnt be a very good thing to do. My 2ps worth! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 If you straight cut a chassis, then a spreader plate either side will prevent it from breaking. If you assume that you use a plate that is at least as thick as the chassis, you overlap by a good margin to allow for the possibility of weakness in the metal on the inside, and do a good quality seam weld, then it will be as strong or more than the chassis itself. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 The heat affected zone adjacent to a weld will have different metalurgical properties to the parent metal. These properties will depend on how the material was pre and post treated. In our cases, even without spreader plates (that should always be used) the weld if done properly will be at least as strong as the parent metal as already stated. It is unlikely in my opinion that a fatigue failure, which is the most likely cause of a weld failing, would materialise(excuse the pun) in the lifetime of the vehicle. Again, as already stated, good design of the connection is paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 The HAZ (heat affected zone), as has been mentioned, changes its metalugy slightly and this can cause it to be more likely to corrode. It is worth designing welded areas to be away from moisture traps especially where a coating or surface treatment can not be used. Turning welded seam pipe so that the weld seam isn't at the bottom where condensation could collect for instance would reduce the chance of the pipe corroding from the inside out along the seam. It is true that a good weld should be stronger then the parent metal but, again, that depends on the parent metal and how the HAZ has changed its properties. The weld may be stronger then the parent metal adjacent to the weld within the HAZ but may also be weaker then the original metal which may have had a heat treatment. Generally, if you weld two peices of metal plate together and then test its tensile strength the metal should fail in the HAZ area and not in the weld itself or elsewhere in the parent metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 So in my case it will not effect the longevity of chasis...?As I am not cuting straight the chassis,I whant just to weld some mounting for tree sliders such as here... only..bad is in my case theat I whant to weld it without taking the entire body of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 So in my case it will not effect the longevity of chasis...?As I am not cuting straight the chassis,I whant just to weld some mounting for tree sliders such as here...only..bad is in my case theat I whant to weld it without taking the entire body of the car. My unexperienced twopenneth. In the photo the rear attachment point is on a structure designed to take downward vertical loads from the rear tub only. The Rock Slider will impart horizontal or angled forces into this point which it not braced for. Personaly I would consider bracing the body support across to the chassis? My Hybred has units that were designe as Tree Sliders for trialling which have minimal vertical bracing but impart the forces horizontally to push the rear of the vehicle around trees. What I am trying to suggest is that you need to consider what you expect your sliders to do? Twopenneth over hope that this helps? Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 My unexperienced twopenneth.In the photo the rear attachment point is on a structure designed to take downward vertical loads from the rear tub only. The Rock Slider will impart horizontal or angled forces into this point which it not braced for. Personaly I would consider bracing the body support across to the chassis? My Hybred has units that were designe as Tree Sliders for trialling which have minimal vertical bracing but impart the forces horizontally to push the rear of the vehicle around trees. What I am trying to suggest is that you need to consider what you expect your sliders to do? Twopenneth over hope that this helps? Marc. Mark--I whant to have this tree sliders--- because I whant to avoid side accidents(impact) with another car or just a tree. Do you have some photo with an mounting for your tree sliders? Because I am not sure where and what is beter to use for mounting my (future DIY) tree sliders. thanks eugen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Mark--I whant to have this tree sliders--- because I whant to avoid side accidents(impact) with another car or just a tree.Do you have some photo with an mounting for your tree sliders? Because I am not sure where and what is beter to use for mounting my (future DIY) tree sliders. thanks eugen Hi Eugen To be honest my sliders are not fixed very strongly and possibly work due to the fact that they are butted up to the side of the chassis! The front fixing is the same as your photo the rear has a bracket welded to the chassis and a clevis bolt to hold the slider in place. The previous owner built them but they have worked well as he was a regular RTV winner for quite a few years in this motor. If/when I rebuild the motor I would consider something that transfers the forces better. In my case this could simply be a flat spreader plate welded againt the side of the chassis with a stronger mounting bracket on it. Your best bet is to wait for an adult to make an engineering based answer, I could only observe from the photo I don't have the knowledge to offer guaranteed design. Sorry. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 I have found an alternative--What do you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Which vehicle do you want to fit rock/tree sliders to? If it's a defender, you can buy or make them so they just bolt on, using the two body outriggers. No welding required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noggy Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 just stick em on! it wont distort your chassis, and wont cause damage!(to your landy anyways ) dont be so scared of your welder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Which vehicle do you want to fit rock/tree sliders to?If it's a defender, you can buy or make them so they just bolt on, using the two body outriggers. No welding required. To DEFENDER 110 Tdi 1997 SW Hard Top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I have found an alternative--What do you think The ''U'' bolt method of clamping brackets on doesn't really suit the LandRover chassis.The metal is too thin and the chassis will crush.You can do similar but instead of a U bolt make a bracket for the inner wall of the chassis rail from 2''x1'' structural steel channel section and use nuts and bolts with crush tubes above and below the box section as shown here http://au.msnusers.com/wildfingsphotos/sho...&PhotoID=16 Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 The ''U'' bolt method of clamping brackets on doesn't really suit the LandRover chassis.The metal is too thin and the chassis will crush.You can do similar but instead of a U bolt make a bracket for the inner wall of the chassis rail from 2''x1'' structural steel channel section and use nuts and bolts with crush tubes above and below the box section as shown herehttp://au.msnusers.com/wildfingsphotos/sho...&PhotoID=16 Bill. Nice decision-But it makes the hole construction dificult-as by welding is more simple and easy but not so "trust". I wonder how it looks a welded mounting(on a def 110) for the rock sliders indeed..????I just whant to see how much weld it was used there..??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Nice decision-But it makes the hole construction dificult-as by welding is more simple and easy but not so "trust".I wonder how it looks a welded mounting(on a def 110) for the rock sliders indeed..????I just whant to see how much weld it was used there..??? As a structure the LandRover chassis is quite strong,even when a bit rusty. But as said before the metal is very thin and when subjected to certain forces will crush or tear easily. If you are going to weld any brackets on that will subject the chassis material to tearing or crushing forces then try to spread the force over as wide an area as possible. It goes without saying that welding will burn off the paint protection from the inside of the box section. Clamping brackets on as I described earlier takes advantage of the strength of the box section rather than the tear strength of a piece of 2mm thin or possibly rusted thinner metal. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesignDEFENDER Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 As a structure the LandRover chassis is quite strong,even when a bit rusty. But as said before the metal is very thin and when subjected to certain forces will crush or tear easily. If you are going to weld any brackets on that will subject the chassis material to tearing or crushing forces then try to spread the force over as wide an area as possible. It goes without saying that welding will burn off the paint protection from the inside of the box section. Clamping brackets on as I described earlier takes advantage of the strength of the box section rather than the tear strength of a piece of 2mm thin or possibly rusted thinner metal.Bill. So..there is paint inside of chasiss?I didnt know theat. As about clamping brakets- I am agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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