blasted vibration!!

[letsgetdirty]

Evening all.

Im getting regular with this propshaft problems. So as it goes so far I posted about the lift I have at the front, The front sits roughly at a 4 inch lift and the rear 3. So I fitted a new heavy duty 30 degree wide angle extended prop to rid any unwanted vibration, To be honest it wasnt too bad with the standard prop but I changed it anyway.

Now changed with the new prop the vibration seems to be worse than ever! feathering the throttle at 3rd gear at 30 gives groaning and rumbling and the same in 4th until you are up the rev range. It is so bad I wont use the landy until Its sorted.

Any Ideas what the next step is?????

Hope all are well

Tris

[Young bobtail Rhys]

Have you corrected the angle with the radius arms as well then? With a 4" lift you will need around 6 degrees correction

[western]

reckon your going to have to swap the springs over from front to rear.

[letsgetdirty]

I havnt done anything with the arms I think you right ralph but I really wanted to keep that lift If there is nothing else to be done then Id better admit defeat

Darn

Darn

Darn!!!!!!!!!!! ( Notice the family friendly language)

[Kev Baldwin]

A wide angle prop won't do anything to counter vibrations. You need a double cardan front shaft.

[western]

( Notice the family friendly language)

good man

you'll still have a decent enough lift at the front with the other springs.

my 110 sits 1 inch higher at the rear than the front & I haven't noticed any undue prop vibes.

[letsgetdirty]

I Just couldnt afford the double cardon prop, I think I have listened to a few people with the wrong idea, Not on here but elsewhere a lot told me a wide angle will do Ralph sounds like your set up is nice so thats what I will do tomorrow.

Im going to have to buy a new toy for the defender to cheer myself up now!

[western]

if I was a lot closer I'd come & help.

[letsgetdirty]

if I was a lot closer I'd come & help.

I know, That would be perfect getting someone with a bit of experiance to say yeigh or neigh on this suspension! Hmmm fancy a holiday ralph? All expenses paid trip to sunny tamworth If you came up here ralph you would have to have locking wheel nuts......Know what I mean? Its like the local creche play with guns and knives up here not dolls and power rangers.

Thanks anyway ralph

[Young bobtail Rhys]

Thing is, the prop has correct itself in a way, which in return will cut out the uj wear and vibrations etc. but only when fitted in conjunction with the correction arms I thought?

Also, you have checked that no wheel weights have fallen off???........................

[V8 Freak]

And......

Front prop UJ's should not be aligned on the spline. You need a 35 degree offset (two splines or so I think) between front UJ and rear UJ. (On Same Prop)

You might want to check this out as well.... Dave Ashcroft mentioned it to me, I looked, I saw the light, I made good and lots of vibration went away !!!

Neil

[letsgetdirty]

Thing is, the prop has correct itself in a way, which in return will cut out the uj wear and vibrations etc. but only when fitted in conjunction with the correction arms I thought?

Also, you have checked that no wheel weights have fallen off???........................

Hmmm I dont know about that?? So your saying its possible the vibration could go if the correction arms are fitted, If im thinking right they have bushes on the end and lifting it squashes the bottom of the bush and pulls the top away?? I did look earlier at the back ones~? And the bushes were as I just described.

Trust me.. Aint no out of balance wheel making this noise (As he runs outside to check)

[letsgetdirty]

And......

Front prop UJ's should not be aligned on the spline. You need a 35 degree offset (two splines or so I think) between front UJ and rear UJ. (On Same Prop)

You might want to check this out as well.... Dave Ashcroft mentioned it to me, I looked, I saw the light, I made good and lots of vibration went away !!!

Neil

Its a thirty degree wide angle I have but im struggling to understand what you mean??

splines??

[treebloke]

Evening all.

Im getting regular with this propshaft problems. So as it goes so far I posted about the lift I have at the front, The front sits roughly at a 4 inch lift and the rear 3. So I fitted a new heavy duty 30 degree wide angle extended prop to rid any unwanted vibration, To be honest it wasnt too bad with the standard prop but I changed it anyway.

Now changed with the new prop the vibration seems to be worse than ever! feathering the throttle at 3rd gear at 30 gives groaning and rumbling and the same in 4th until you are up the rev range. It is so bad I wont use the landy until Its sorted.

Any Ideas what the next step is?????

Hope all are well

Tris

I guess you could take the front prop off, put it into difflock and road test it. Should tell you something.

If the vibration goes then bring it over to Wolves and we can pop a double cardon on to try.

[Young bobtail Rhys]

That is a good way of testing it.

Correction arms not only "correct" the axle camber but minimalise bump steer.

[letsgetdirty]

I guess you could take the front prop off, put it into difflock and road test it. Should tell you something.

If the vibration goes then bring it over to Wolves and we can pop a double cardon on to try.

Would you mind bob? That would be really good to do.

When Could I pop over to try???

tris

[western]

Its a thirty degree wide angle I have but im struggling to understand what you mean??

splines??

Look at the rear prop UJ's you'l see they are lined up with eachother known as 'in phase' on the front the UJ's must be 35degrees out of line 'out of phase' Like this

[letsgetdirty]

Look at the rear prop UJ's you'l see they are lined up with eachother known as 'in phase' on the front the UJ's must be 35degrees out of line 'out of phase' Like this

Thanks ralph,

Right I got that basicaly its like being straight then cut in the middle and welded back together slightly out of line

I would have thought it would be spot on as from the shop?? Hmmm if bob gets intouch and the double cardon sorts it I might save for the radius arms unless I get my ones kinked?

[western]

Yep, you've got the idea now, the new prop should just be a fit & forget [except for greasing] job, have a look along the shaft of the rear prop, sometimes they have small rectagulat balance weights spot welded on, if these fall off then it upsets the balance & can cause vibes to start & upset the drive.

[SteveG]

Hmmm I dont know about that?? So your saying its possible the vibration could go if the correction arms are fitted, If im thinking right they have bushes on the end and lifting it squashes the bottom of the bush and pulls the top away?? I did look earlier at the back ones~? And the bushes were as I just described.

Trust me.. Aint no out of balance wheel making this noise (As he runs outside to check)

Hello, sorry to hear that bad advice has cost you money, I hope you've gone back to those people and let them know they told you a load of ......

I'd also be weary of following the advice to fit corrected front radius arms as this could make your vibration worse. Your prop has two UJ's on. One at the transfer box and one at the diff end. This is how I understand the complicated world of propshafts works..

When you lifted your 90 you increased the working angle on the UJ at the transfer box end, as the angle between the axle and the chassis mounts has increased. You've also increased the prop length too so you will now have less movement in the slip joint.

As the front radius arms are of a fixed length your lift has resulted in the axle being rotated anti clockwise and the pinion end of the diff is now pointing upwards which means your UJ is now working at a lower working angle than before. One UJ working at a greater angle and one working at a lower angle is giving you the pronounced vibration. Fitting a Double Cardan propshaft with the DC joint at the Tbox end, works here by cancelling out the greater working angle at the Tbox end.

If you fit the castor corrected arms you will now rotate the axle back and now your UJ at the diff end will be working at a much greater working angle and your UJ at the Tbox end at a slightly greater working angle. I can't see how this will improve matters as both UJ's will now be working at a greater angle than they were designed for and this will cause the vibration. By the way the vibration is a sign of increased wear too, so even if you can live with it you will need to get used to changing UJ's on a more frequent basis.

Remember that you have done the same to the rear prop too. It tends not to affect this as much as the front as they are longer and so the angle change is less, but be aware that a vibration in the rear prop often feels like it's coming from the front. So when you take you front prop off to test you may still feel a vibration from the rear prop.

So my advice would be to either reduce your lift to reduce the working angles of the UJ's or fit a DC prop and you may have to do this to the rear too with a very high lift.

By the way, you can tell the people that advised you to fit a wide angle prop that the wide angle props are simply props with larger UJ's and Yokes that allow the UJ's to operate at wide angles without binding. They do nothing to offset the oscillations and hence vibrations of working at these larger angles.

Cheers

Steve

[treebloke]

Would you mind bob? That would be really good to do.

When Could I pop over to try???

tris

Any night next week, I get home around 6pm so 7ish.

[letsgetdirty]

Steve, Ralph, Bob and the others thanks so much for helping me to understand, Im pretty much on my own here so I have to rely heavily on the forum, Its all to do with working out the cost and working out what I need and what I can get away with.

Steve I will let the others know who told me to fit a wide angle, I shall write it on the end of a cricket bat and give them a close up

Bob I will give you a call over the weekend to see what night is most convieniant next week, I still have your number.

I dont think you know how much its appreciated.

So here are the plans and what has happened so far..

Firstly I purchased from crappocks a 2inch lift full kit, Being used to cars and having unlabled boxes I put the thicker springs on the front and thin on the back forgetting the load carrying potential of a 90 needs thicker springs on the rear, As a result the total lift is 4inches, total accident but nice, The ride is good and there is no indication of a problem with the rear springs being on the front apart from a higher lift, So here is the plan....

Pete aka raceface has a set of rear 2inch lift springs, I will take my rear ones off which were meant for the front and replace them with the proper rear springs of pete's along with a 2inch spacer hence giving me 4inch on the back. Shock absorbers will be played about with after. (I will probably weld mounts on lower and change front turrets)

Then if the propshaft of bobs cures the vibration I will fit a double cardon, And perhaps use the extended piston type prop I bought for the front on the rear??

There are some arms on the back which are squashing the bushes with the lift and I was wondering about having them kinked??

So unless anyone has a warning about using rear springs on the front then what i have accidently found is by using 4 rear springs and a spacer on the rear a 2inch lift becomes a 4inch, Its just the shockers that need tweaked

Cor me head!! I should stick to painting

Thanks tris