Look what i've just bought

[Astro_Al]

To be honest, its not such a huge problem to put these 'extra stresses' on the chassis. I've taken off a clear 600kg from my Mog in steel alone, and its still whole (ish)!

They are built far heavier than a land rover, and no-one will be 'wheeling' with any serious weight on the thing. Its more a question of getting the most out of it by not limiting it. Mines going to be more of a 'work truck' than an offroader, so where I'm adding a crane and a few odd bits I might decide to rigidly mount it (not sure yet). I'm not bothered if I lose chassis flex.

For what its worth, I intend to keep the torque tube and suspension, yet fit a different engine and gearboxes, but its a contentious issue!

Bish - if you're re-designing the suspension then eliminating chassis twist is not an issue as you say, its only if you want to keep the whole setup including torque tubes that you need to use your brain a bit. (And why not - its robust and works well).

Al.

[muddy]

if you want to keep the whole setup including torque tubes that you need to use your brain a bit. (And why not - its robust and works well).

Al.

Speak for your own brain al, i'm not sure how well mine works

[tomcat404]

Thats interesting about the front portal/shaft etc being a direct fit on the rear....I've been thinking the same for my 2 404's - 4WS and re body /cage . The biggest draw back with the 404 is the std gearbox's lack of ratios and cost of pto units too . The only real solution to that is 4 linking the axles and fitting complete eng+trans to suit the diff offsets. There is a bit of info over on Difflock mog section about converting the std 404 g/box to 8 speed which maybe another option, thus keeping the std torque tubes.

I think the chassis is some sort of high grade steel, and whatever steel it is , it's still a big no-no to weld cross members to it as it would make it too rigid plus creating stress loads where there shouldn't be. Drill and bolt or rivet as per original.

The 'neutral' point of the chassis is at the rear of the transfer case . The std cab has a single ctr pivot above this and mounts either side at the front.

Those pic's are off a thread on Pirate iirc - looking close at the cab it appears to be a moulding - grp? anyone know anything?

I have some spare wheels too and a few other bits....

Cheers

Steveb

Hi steve in know the thread your talking about on difflock, a chap called moggs has also converted his to a 6 cyl diesel out of a nissan and managed to add some power steering too?

I am really fortunate that i live within 3 miles of two of the uks leading mog suppliers AC Price and Atkinson Vos. After picking their brians you can actually fit a transfer box of a u900 to utilise the torque tubes and then convert the input to the box to a prop drive allowing the use of any engine and box accordingly?

As soon as I have one i'll let you know

nath

[steve_d]

Please excuse a question from someone who knows nothing about Mogs.

So the chassis when used in the original vehicle is designed to twist but in that case is, I'm guessing, quite a heavy vehicle.

If you then take away all that weight and replace with a roll cage and a couple of seats how much does the chassis twist and is it worth worrying about?

Steve

[Astro_Al]

Steve, yes they're heavy compared to landrovers. They have a greater carrying capacity too.

How much it twists after the addition of a rollcage depends on how its done. If you just weld it to the chassis you'll eliminate a lot of the twist (which is a 'feature' rather than a 'problem'), but if you use similar (or the same) mounts as the original cab / bed then you can retain the twist.

The bed etc is mounted on a kind of pivoting shackle arrangement to allow the chassis to twist under it.

If you keep the torque tube arrangement, then allowing the chassis to twist is a bonus, if you rfeplace the suspension too then its not such an issue, but then why bother keeping it Mog at all, just steal the axles and put them on a lighter chassis.

Mog work well, I vote keep the chassis, suspension, tubes etc and mount the cage accordingly.

Hope it clears it up a bit!

Al.

[steve_d]

Steve, yes they're heavy compared to landrovers. They have a greater carrying capacity too.

How much it twists after the addition of a rollcage depends on how its done. If you just weld it to the chassis you'll eliminate a lot of the twist (which is a 'feature' rather than a 'problem'), but if you use similar (or the same) mounts as the original cab / bed then you can retain the twist.

The bed etc is mounted on a kind of pivoting shackle arrangement to allow the chassis to twist under it.

If you keep the torque tube arrangement, then allowing the chassis to twist is a bonus, if you rfeplace the suspension too then its not such an issue, but then why bother keeping it Mog at all, just steal the axles and put them on a lighter chassis.

Mog work well, I vote keep the chassis, suspension, tubes etc and mount the cage accordingly.

Hope it clears it up a bit!

Al.

No, I think you have missed my point.

The chassis will twist (as designed) because the vehicle has weight.

What I'm saying is if you take all that weight away will the chassis still twist and if it does then how much?

If the answer is that without the weight it does not twist much then there is not much lost by welding/bolting the cage on and stiffening it.

Steve

[steve b]

Thats interesting about the u900 transfer box Nath,

Keep us posted , as Al said , the original mog system is well designed and proven .

Steveb

[Tom.H]

Hi

I know we all like pictures I’ve been able to find some more pictures of red/yellow mog

The owner does have an account on Pirate4x4 but I curtly cant remember his user name

[tomcat404]

thanks for the pictures,

I believe that the owners call sign is ubermog? he seems to have mid mounted the engine using a chevy block and still uses the torque tubes???

I need to know more???

[angusb]

thanks for the pictures,

I believe that the owners call sign is ubermog? he seems to have mid mounted the engine using a chevy block and still uses the torque tubes???

I need to know more???

I like the one where he's getting air that's excellent

[Land RoRo]

If you have heard of the cuthbertson converson you can see where I am going with this...

[steve b]

thanks for the pictures,

I believe that the owners call sign is ubermog? he seems to have mid mounted the engine using a chevy block and still uses the torque tubes???

I need to know more???

.....I saw that m-m rear facing chevy and wondered if it has its own box - maybe auto with a gear set onto the input shaft of the std box, which would give several choices of low ratio ...it is a nice machine and it would be nice to know a bit more about the excecution of all that engineering B) .

The pic with 'air' is great, the only other photo's I've seen of Mog's going quick are those that Streaky (on here) has put up.

The rear body is bolted rigid to the chassis on drivers side and on shackles similar to series LR spring shackles on the passenger side , swinging at 90* to chassis rails, I'll get a couple of up pic's when I can .

...there is 2 different front shock set ups in those pic's too.

Cheers

Steveb

[tomcat404]

thanks for the info chaps.....

if there is enough interest i maybe able to souce a couple of the transfer boxes and get them converted. You would hopefully be able to use the torque tubes and spin the engine round to make it mid engined, they might not be too cheap i'm afraid but the options it offers are superb !!

Anybody have any pictures of flexible mounts onto a chassis of a 404 mog please? shackle mounts and pivoting centres etc?

AL..... any chance of some more info on the disc conversion and hubs for the 404's please, how the diesel conversion going too?

Just out of interest if anybody is wiring up, dare i say it an electric winch I have some 65mm superbraided cable, very sexy stuff if i do say so myself i can supply it in any length with crimped ends on of your choice and red or black heat shrink to suit, send me a PM if your interested.

nath

[Tom.H]

Like you (tomcat) I am also planning to start a unimog project. Currently I am on the look for a relatively good condition 404. It seems that your build going to be a lot more extreme than mine as I am planning on keeping the standard body and drive train (may replace the engine in the future).

I have managed to find one picture of the rear pivot on a 404.

As for disk brake's portal rover does a disk brake conversion which uses land rover callipers. The best bet would be contacting him (well I think)

http://hi-land-rovers.moonfruit.com/

I’ve managed two find to shops in the US which do disk brake conversion for 404 axels

http://www.exaxt.ca/axle.asp

http://www.themogshop.com/show-product-ima...e=disc&pg=1

Thanks

Tom

[tomcat404]

Hi Tom,

Superb picture exactly what i've been looking for !! Thanks.

I intend to mount a cage on the very fron chassis mounts and then the first ones you see in that picture. I really can't fathem how to do that without affeting what flex i might acheive? The cage will stiffen the chasiss thrugh the bracings of the cage if that makes sense?

The cage wil be at 8 main points, front hoop to the frear of the original cab/chassis mounts, rear hoop the front rear body mounts, then rear stays to each side of the chasiss at the back and finally front legs out to for the front hoop props?

If it doesn't make sense have a little look at this works tomcat frame, not quite to the same level but you get the idea. Bare in mind that both landrovers and the mogs are roughly the same length

[dangerous doug]

Hi

I know we all like pictures I’ve been able to find some more pictures of red/yellow mog

The owner does have an account on Pirate4x4 but I curtly cant remember his user name

what a fruitcake!

[steve b]

Hi Tom,

Those centrally pivotted x-members are normally found under the rear of the cab, the std ( Ex Army)rear body is fixed one side and free to twist along the passenger side rail, that is a good solution though.

Cheers

Steveb

[dangerous doug]

nath, you started work on it yet?

[tomcat404]

nath, you started work on it yet?

Nope not yet, still waiting on the dvla for the ok on the log book

With the current list of ideas and the list of bits parts i would need I will probably have to sell my tc to fund it and make it worth while , just doing some sums ?? Having 2 children under 4 is also a little time consuming,

;

Full List:

Full hydro front and rear,

Coilovers,

Disc conversion,

double beadlock wheel,

44" super swampers,

full cage and panels,

LS6..... auto ....... have to sit down at this point... it is a U 1000 tx box that can be converted to a remote Tx case also mucho's ££££££

Also need a new compressor and probably time for plasma cutter for the build.

not much really..... lol...

Lets wait for the ok from the DVLA first.

The only part I still do not have any ideas on is how to mount a cage on the chassis mounts without affecting any twist??

Thoughts???

cheers

Nath

[dangerous doug]

i cant see anyway of mounting a sturdy cage with out losing twist. inless you make a very compact cage over the cab like the red one. you plans sound good though. is going to be awsome when its done.

[Astro_Al]

Nath - few Q's:

1. Why bother with full hydro at the front, just bung on a Mog powered steering box?

2. Why coilovers?

3. Have you thought about running your choice of gearboxes and then figuring a different way to mate them up to the propshafts? Might give you more options.

4. To 'not affect twist' with your cage, just beef up the current cab mounts, and tie the cage on to those. Thats what I'm doing. Change in ability to flex = 0.

The rest of it seems straightforward enough. Did pugwash ever sell his engine and box? That'd be a good start.

You're on your own with buying the tools, but I feel your pain!

Al

[dangerous doug]

2. Why coilovers?

bling factor?

[tomcat404]

bling factor?

well its been alittle while but I have had to write to Ma Benz germany to prove the age of the 404. The DVLA required this to provide an age related plate!?!?!?!?

After approximately 11 e-mails and 3 phone callsover 4 months i received a response today.................1959

Now reading between the DVLA lines that makes this truck tax exempt and mot exempt ? I only have to provide an appropriate vehicle shape for recognition. and thats it. when i want it on the road i have to take it to a garage for a safety check and then i'll receive my tax free disc etc?

so with a blank canvas what should i build????

nath

[steve_d]

I believe they will also want a vehicle make and model so you will have to put your thinking cap on for that as well.

I don't think 'Petal' or 'Mouse' type names would sit well with the DVLA but has to be worth a try.

Imagine the response you would get from the likes of insurance companies when asked "What make is your car?"

................'Moglamaniac'

Steve

[Tom.H]

Being a mog owner I am quite interested to see how this build goes.

Has there been any process on it

Tom