New rollcage fitting

[davidlandy]

I have at last, long overdue it must be said, got a roll cage coming for my Def 90 hardtop.

Its a P&P one which has the external front section, then the internal hoop and rear section.

I am at this stage not sure what info/instructions come with the cage, but the question is in the meantime that I am looking for some advice on the fitting any hints and tips for the best way to get the best results.

Many thanks all

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Few thoughts for you

(Dependant on if it is fully welded up or if you will need to weld it up)

There are IMHO 3 key things around how good a cage is

• Quality of hoops / bends / design
  
• Quality of the fitting - esp base plates to chassis
  
• Quality of the welding
  

The 1st is taken care of as you have a P&P cage, so its the other 2

Don't assume it will fit perfectly - even though made on a jig

the erm "Tolernaces" between LRs is amazing so you may need to "Fettle" it

DO GO and buy yourselves from Halford some 1" wide type rachet straps

these can be used to pull and sqeeze the cage bits together and then hold them there

whilst you stand back and look and check - and then TACK weld DO NOT weld up

Mount evrything as though is the finished article, tack as you go and then step back

and look at the LR from 20 or so feet away, check uprights levels and symetricals

take your time, use tape measures squares and angle gauges, once its welded

up thats it - and you'll kick yourself if you didn't pay enough attention to it "Looking" right

The reason I say tack weld is welding will pull joints open and closed around

the cage - tack EVERYTHING 1st then check, if all OK then TACK agin so the cage is good and

solidy tacked up, only then release the straps

Then walk away and look at it again, shouldn't have moved check none of the tacks have broken - they can do

this when you weld another part and the cage "Pulls" - enough to crack a weld in another place - thats

the ability of welds to pull and push the cage system

Make sure that you remove any paint and linish back where your going to weld

and please don't take this the wrong way - but if you are in the least "Wondering" about

your welding skills then by all means prepare and tack it up but get someone good to finsih the

full welds

Pay particular attention to the welds and platework where the cage meets the chassis

99.99999% of the time what you and everyone else will see and admire will be visible and above the chassis

on the 0.00001% of the time - when things go pear shaped, this is when the bit few see makes its entrance

and thats the chassis mounts that do their job, tricky to get to, but take time and clean back before welding

On my 90 (maybe yours is the same) remember the rear wiring loom exits the chassis leg at the back drovers side - erm just

where you would like to weld - so bear in mind

When you are happy then weld up as much as you possibly can on the entire cage, do small runs - ie do NOT

then try to weld up each join fully in one pass - the pull push kicjks back in, do say 1/4 of one tube then the same on another and so on

untill all are 1/4 welded, then do say 1/2 of whats left on each and so on, you won't in some places be able to

fully weld up the tubes, have what isn't welded as small a area as possible, as you will have to remove the cage

unbolting everything and any straps holding things where you wnat them, although now you would think

the cage is "Pretty Much sorted welding wise" you'll be amazed how a now unheld cage can move about as you weld up

those last places, again do all of them 1/2 at a time, this reduces distortion

HTH

Nige

[davidlandy]

great tips there Nige, thanks - wouldnt had thought about welding it up as you said - I would had blitzed each point at a time. what would use to clean up the areas to be welded - thinking ease of access too?

is there any special info about where the cage enters the front wing section and not having to remove the wings?

[SVX90]

I am receiving my LR90 hardtop on Sunday. I am thinking about installing the same rollcage.

Please provide the source for the rollcage and if there are before and after pictures ...That would be great.

Cheers

[Monster]

Pay particular attention to the welds and platework where the cage meets the chassis

99.99999% of the time what you and everyone else will see and admire will be visible and above the chassis

on the 0.00001% of the time - when things go pear shaped, this is when the bit few see makes its entrance

and thats the chassis mounts that do their job, tricky to get to, but take time and clean back before welding

On my 90 (maybe yours is the same) remember the rear wiring loom exits the chassis leg at the back drovers side - erm just

where you would like to weld - so bear in mind

When you are happy then weld up as much as you possibly can on the entire cage, do small runs - ie do NOT

then try to weld up each join fully in one pass - the pull push kicjks back in, do say 1/4 of one tube then the same on another and so on

untill all are 1/4 welded, then do say 1/2 of whats left on each and so on, you won't in some places be able to

fully weld up the tubes, have what isn't welded as small a area as possible, as you will have to remove the cage

unbolting everything and any straps holding things where you wnat them, although now you would think

the cage is "Pretty Much sorted welding wise" you'll be amazed how a now unheld cage can move about as you weld up

those last places, again do all of them 1/2 at a time, this reduces distortion

HTH

Nige

Hi Nige,

Although a defender thread, i hoping this would also be of relevance to my lightweight hybrid.

(I believe the particular one is for S3 & 90/110).

I have a safety devices roll bar that i have trial fitted to my lightwieght hybrid but am struggling with the chassis mounts. I am mainly interested in the mounts that hold the hoop. Would you have any pics of them?

For some reason exactly where i need to put the plates, are where the feul tank outrigger is situated. Also on the inside of the chassis is where the A frame support is mounted. Any ideas how i can get around this or generate the support needed for the roll bar?

I am unable to drop down to your local pipe bender!

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers.

[davidlandy]

i will during the install take loads of pics of each step

[bishbosh]

Well, it's not a P&P cage, but I think it is coming along nicely......

Rear hoop is in, save for completing the welding and The B hoop is tacked up:

It is rather a tight fit too:

About 3mm either side at the gutter!!

Got to get started on the "ears" for the B hoop to connect to the outer cage at gutter level, without going through the alpine light! Fun and game ahead methinks!

[jcwcooper]

Is that cage going to be a full external?

Dave.

[bishbosh]

Is that cage going to be a full external?

Dave.

B & C hoops are internal.

A hoop (windscreenhoop) will be external with 4 front to rear bars going all the way to the back. X bracing will also feature in the external part.

[davidlandy]

looking good.

whats the arrangement going to be to get the supports down to the rear cross member?

[bishbosh]

looking good.

whats the arrangement going to be to get the supports down to the rear cross member?

Straight tubes down through the wheel boxes onto the end of the cross member at the base of the C hoop. The cross member is 5mm box section so plenty strong enough.

That is, until I find that the tube will foul the wheel...... I'll have to look into that..... hmmm..... really don't want the stays inboard of the wheel boxes as they get in the way so much......hmmmmmm

[jcwcooper]

Im looking at cage at the moment, looking at buying a kit from NOR? who supplyed your cage?

Sorry for hijacking the thread

Dave.

[bishbosh]

If that question was directed at me, the answer is nobody!

I bought the CDS tube and with (a lot) of help from a friend with a good bender we bent up the three hoops. All I have to do now is fit it!

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I have just had delivery of a NOR Truck Cab cage.

The qulaity is 10/10 (and I'm fussy)

the bend quality / accuracy is stunning

VFM 10/10 50.8 2.6mm Clubmans 500

Fitting report later (read next year) but its a work of art

from what I have seen so far - would recomend them 100%

Nige

[jcwcooper]

bishbosh that one was directed at you, thanks for the answer.....done a good job on that hoop

Nige, did NOR Notch the tube for you?

Dave.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I will do a build thread when I am next allowed in the workshop

NOR Cage came

Front hoop Bent with loose windscreen bar (so I can have the height exactly where I want etc) - bar notched both ends

2x roof bars notched both end and mark which way around / which side

Main hoop - bent and cross bars (X) tacked in palce all notcjed crosses go right to the base too

Cross on the roof section - jig tack weld - notched all 4 contacts to front and rear hoops

Bars from rear hoop to rear crossmember - notched on end and over long to allow customisation

All in all 10/10

Bish - looking V good

Nige

[jcwcooper]

cheers Nige, spoke to NOR about a full external cage for my 90, I think ive got all the answers im after for now, I will be watching your build with intrest.

Thanks

Dave.

[davidlandy]

has anybody got any pics of how close the rear diagonals to the rear x member get to the wheels under articulation. I need to be sure to position mine just right!

[davidlandy]

started fitting my p&p cage today - took agaes unwrapping it and found no instructions which wasnt helpful, so I have to make my own template up now for hole drilling on the wings and I dont know the exact configuration of the chassis mount parts.

does anybody have one of these fitted that could take some pics or advise of which bits go where?

(btw is a 90 hardtop , external front and internal hoop, with supports to the rear cross member area)

ta

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

started fitting my p&p cage today - took agaes unwrapping it and found no instructions which wasnt helpful, so I have to make my own template up now for hole drilling on the wings and I dont know the exact configuration of the chassis mount parts.

does anybody have one of these fitted that could take some pics or advise of which bits go where?

(btw is a 90 hardtop , external front and internal hoop, with supports to the rear cross member area)

ta

Piggin tricky one this

I used the inner of a 3 used loo rolls, tweaked with cut about and stuck together so as the same OD as tube, made 2 of these

then cut at an angle so as to fit vertically over the wings, then I made sure the loo rolls were in place and measured the distance from one wing to the other, when the gap was what I wanted marked round with a permanent marker pen, then used a hole saw of the right OD and drilled hrough

Mine (post bending )

Nige

[davidlandy]

mines different to your Nige, it has a section (with four captive nuts on) that you put inside the wing that mates up with the front outrigger , then you drill four holes in the wing and then the upper section bolts on.

[stravaigin]

started fitting my p&p cage today - took agaes unwrapping it and found no instructions which wasnt helpful, so I have to make my own template up now for hole drilling on the wings and I dont know the exact configuration of the chassis mount parts.

does anybody have one of these fitted that could take some pics or advise of which bits go where?

(btw is a 90 hardtop , external front and internal hoop, with supports to the rear cross member area)

ta

Hiya David,

I have a P&P roll cage in both my 90s, one is a simple internal hoop, the other is an external NAS style with internal hoop. I think you may have similar?

Firstly, if you have no instructions get in touch with P&P (i think its Kim) they will email you the instructions you need. I found them very helpful to deal with

this is how I fitted mine, being a billy no mates I did it on my own and it took me about a day, working slowly with lots of tea and measuring/eying up.

I started with the front hoop, loosely assemble the w/s bar and side bars and sit the whole thing in position. (easier with 2 people). Loosely assemble the internal too, I put the hoop in first then attached the rear stays once you are happy that its in the correct position and it looks good mark everything up. As Nige said previously, ratchet straps are your friend when it comes to pulling everything together.

At some point you are gonna have to bite the bullet and drill holes in your pride and joy, measure twice, then measure again, go and have a cuppa then have another look, then get on with it! i drilled the external points first as this is what you will see. Check your alignment with the front wing edge on both sides (mine was really tight here) and also alignment with the gutter above the doors (this is where it will show if you don't get it right). You actually have a fair bit of leeway under the feet anyway.

I partially removed the wheel spats to get access to the bulkhead crossmember, I spent some time cleaning this and waxoiled everything while I was there. Its a wee bit fiddly fitting this and getting the bolts in, again I was working on my own so it might be easier with some help. I drilled through the roof to pick up on the horns for the internal hoop and once I was happy everything lined up I moved it all forward and de-burred all the holes and painted all bare alloy Assemble everything loose again

Mine is a TD5 so I had to trim the air intake, fitting a Southdown snorkle soon anyway so not an issue.

After that it was just a case of lining up the internal hoop and drilling through the floor to pick up on the chassis brackets. I used plenty of sealant here and only tightened everything once it was all assembled.

I will try and find some photos of the chassis brackets later, hope this helps.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

AH

THats a different cage type to the obne I was looking at - their Competition MSA Cage isn't like that...

I have always worried about that type of joint there and the forces coming down on it on a roll, and I

guess thats also why your cage won't be MSA Approved, but none the less any decent cage is a huge improvment over s*d all

Nige

[davidlandy]

great pics there Kev, you have been most helpful - my cage is slightly different but the theme remains the same. so far I have had some issues getting the bottom parts onto the front outriggers as i cant get my rock sliders off! but with a bit of fliddling i have got one in so far.

be great if you dig out the pics of the underside and post those as im confused dot com with those!

thanks again

[stravaigin]

I'm not too bothered about MSA approval as its not something I need. My cage is based on the NAS Defender type which was required for DOT approval so I would hope it will offer some reasonable protection and being from P&P I am confident this is the case although my first hope is that it has been a complete waste of money and I will never use it. For me this was an easy, bolt in option to add some safety You guys doing challenge events seem to be having rolls more and more and its a case of winching it back on its wheels and carrying on. If i ever did have the misfortune to roll my one hope would be to prevent injury. if the vehicle could limp back to civilisation then even better.

Sorry David, I don't seem to have any more photos and I'm not with my 90s at the moment. There are 2 angled brackets which bolt on to the rear crossmember then the tubular uprights slip on to these and bolt on to the rear stays through the seat box. there is a similar arrangement for the internal hoop which is attaches to the tubular outrigger right next to the chassis rails. Once you start figuring out which one goes where it will all be clear as mud.