The Viking Way Green Lane - Google Earth, Highlighted Driveable Route

[tjolliffe]

The link is for a google earth file that shows the route that is legally driveable on the viking way from Buckminster northwards to the A1.

The lane can be subject to TRO's so please dont take this as the 'final word' and i accept no responsibility for the accuracy. Always check before you head out.

Remeber to obide by green lane code of conducts, dont spoil it for everyone else, most of all however - enjoy it! They may not be around for much longer....

Link: http://download161.mediafire.com/52dsdt52a.../Viking+Way.kmz

[GBMUD]

dont spoil it for everyone else, most of all however - enjoy it! They may not be around for much longer....

Of course, now any idiot who looks at the internet can see the route and go out with his mates to drive it, the fields around it, any archaeology they find along the way etc. I prefer it when folk need to put some effort into finding lanes, that way the abusers tend not to bother.

Chris

[tjolliffe]

Of course, now any idiot who looks at the internet can see the route and go out with his mates to drive it, the fields around it, any archaeology they find along the way etc. I prefer it when folk need to put some effort into finding lanes, that way the abusers tend not to bother.

Chris

I would like to think that anyone on this forum would not abuse green lanes. This link isnt published anywhere else other than on here, it is the responsible of us who should be able to take advantage of these public right of ways.

Tom

[GBMUD]

I would like to think that anyone on this forum would not abuse green lanes.

Sorry, IMHO and experience you are sadly mistaken. This forum attracts 1000s of visitors who never register, and even some registered members seem to have the wrong end of the stick about green lanes and the level of the threat which exists.

Chris

[HoggyN]

Of course, now any idiot who looks at the internet can see the route and go out with his mates to drive it, the fields around it, any archaeology they find along the way etc. I prefer it when folk need to put some effort into finding lanes, that way the abusers tend not to bother.

Chris

Hear hear!

It may be no accident that the number of abused lanes seems to have increased in line with the growth in popularity of the internet.

[tjolliffe]

Ah well in which case remove this thread and lets hope sometime in the future we wont have to worry about people abusing green lanes.

[q-rover]

Ah well in which case remove this thread and lets hope sometime in the future we have to worry about having greenlanes to drive.

Shouldn't it read this.

By keeping all this information, which is public, hush hush, the only people that will 'enjoy' the

lanes in the future are the people that disregard legal rights of way anyway.

So in my opinion, spread the word and go out and enjoy them.

Firearms ban

Hunting ban

etc

etc

Greenlanes???

[landmannnn]

er... no.

Just simply if you publish greenlane information (especially near cities) then lots of people will go and drive them.

20 or 30 4x4's will wreck most unsurfaced rights of way in this weather. The surface then becomes unuseable for walkers, horse riders, dog walkers, mountain bikers etc. That's not good for anyone because greenlanes are for all to enjoy, councils are then forced to either resurface or act against 4x4's.

This isn't about civil liberties.

[q-rover]

Really?

So your staying at home protecting the greenlanes by not using them, whilst undesireables

go out and trash them.

Instead organise some proactive greenlaning aimed at addressing the problems.

I live in a country where offroad driving is illegal, so know what the UK faces when the

bobblehats win.

[GBMUD]

Really?

So your staying at home protecting the greenlanes by not using them, whilst undesireables

go out and trash them.

No, no, no, you have missed the point. By not publicising the whereabouts of green lanes it is not 'easy' for large groups of uneducated 4x4 users to find the lanes so they do not go out and (ab)use them in great numbers, they go and do other things at weekends instead - murder prostitutes, cock fights, badger baiting, hare coursing, visiting Ikea, banger racing, stealing lead off roofs etc..

The people who take the time to research and discover routes for themselves are much more likely to respect the lanes. In any event, lower volumes of traffic and less damage to surfaces the less upset the antis get and the less they strive to have the lanes shut. A couple of 4x4s passing once a month is much more acceptable to residents who may become 'radicalised antis' than groups of 24 tearing past and making a mess 5 times a day at weekends and several times a week in the dark.

Chris

[Godlykepower]

it is not 'easy' for large groups of uneducated 4x4 users to find the lanes so they do not go out and (ab)use them in great numbers, they go and do other things at weekends instead - murder prostitutes, cock fights, badger baiting, hare coursing, visiting Ikea, banger racing, stealing lead off roofs etc..

I find that very offensive actually.

[landmannnn]

I find that very offensive actually.

Why, because you would have to go to Milton Keynes to visit Ikea?

[Godlykepower]

Why, because you would have to go to Milton Keynes to visit Ikea?

Because, I agree that some people ARE uneducated about the laws regarding what you can drive on etc, but maybe they dont have access to the resources that would tell them the letter of the law.

Maybe if they were stopped whilst driving, and were told - unbiassedly (ie not by an Anti), they would learn a lesson and not do it again. Or maybe not.

But to accuse people who DO drive off-road in large groups of "prostitute murdering" and "stealing lead from roofs" etc is not fair, childish & purile.

I bet you a tenner that the majority of users of this forum have at least once driven down an over-used lane or driven where they should not have even been at all. I know I did once when I first got my Land Rover, was told about my actions, and have now learnt a lesson.

AND, if you are implying that because I live close to an IKEA & I found Chris's statement offensive; that I am an uneducated driver, then I shall bow out of this thread now, as I cant be bothered to get into a row right now with someone who does not even know me, let alone know my driving habits.

[landmannnn]

AND, if you are implying that because I live close to an IKEA & I found Chris's statement offensive; that I am an uneducated driver, then I shall bow out of this thread now, as I cant be bothered to get into a row right now with someone who does not even know me, let alone know my driving habits.

No, I wasn't inferring that, it was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek No offence intended.

I have been just as far more guilty in the past, taking small convoys of mates up the fosse way for example, we thought it was the camel trophy, it was certainly more chewed up than any playday site I have ever been to.

We were spurred on by the likes of the 4x4 mags of the 80's who had written articles and shown pictures of this road. It was perfectly legal. If my mates got exitable they would go for a spin around a field, that bit wasn't legal but who was there to stop them?

If I had been shown a map like that back then then would I have gone there?

[GBMUD]

I find that very offensive actually.

Well, most of that was tongue in cheek and if it offended you then I am sorry for you, I am not sorry for saying it. Perhaps you need a thicker skin before venturing into the internet, not everything is aimed at you. Really, my comments are aimed at a particular 'type' of off-roader, if you do any of my list in your free time, do not imagine that I am accusing you of doing any of the other things. Ikea is a serious slur...

By uneducated, I mean unaware of the legal standing and of the issues surrounding green lane use. I do not think that there is anyone who does not have access to the correct information if they choose to seek it, either by asking other 4x4 users on the street or by joining a club or by asking the authorities.

I have no time and little respect for the people who will ultimately be responsible for us loosing our green lanes.

Chris

[forestgrump]

I'm really cautious to wade in here ... especially as my previous contributions to the green laning, off road, recreational use of 4x4's outside of pay and play sites got moderated out of existence ...

The use of green lanes by 4x4's is not, in itself, a bad thing. Access to the countryside by all should be encouraged, active involvement in the great outdoors is healthy for each of us and for our culture. Responsible use of 4x4's as part of the enjoyment of our nations spectacular beauty should also be welcomed, the inaccessible becomes accessible, positive benefits accrue in terms of helping monitor responsible stewardship, spotting pollution problems, being able to assist with injured livestock, report damage to infrastructure etc etc

Green lanes shouldn't be hidden away for fear of inappropriate use, however, being aware that some drivers will behave irresponsibly will help formulate a response that does not necessarily require outright banning. The right to use these lanes is, after-all, an established right granted to generations. I have a definite knee jerk reaction to any superannuated official ( who's wages I sweat to pay ) telling me a freedom is being withdrawn because of some additional mud being churned. Lets deal with the mud without infringing liberty, it may be harder to do, but it's the right thing to do.

As a very small example, in my grumpy old man way trawling through youtube when I find something especially offensive and reckless I post two paragraphs of advice condensed from the Glass recommendations. The length of each paragraph is dictated by the youtube 500 word maximum. It's not much, but it does help flag the issue to drivers who may not be thinking about the wider implications of their actions. I know it looks daft and it feels pretty stupid to post on youtube, I'm certainly not happy about becoming a grumpy old git, but in faith I really couldn't sit back and do absolutely nothing.

Here, just incase anyone wants to join the rising tide against irresponsible use of green lanes, is the text, I'd urge you to post it. If nothing else just so I don't have to feel like a total prat.

Use only rights of way with known, proven or provable vehicular rights. Keep to the defined track. Detour only to pass immovable obstructions. Travel at a quiet and unobtrusive pace and as slowly as practicable; a maximum of 12 mph when in a 4x4 and on an Unsurfaced Right of Way (URoW). Ensure your vehicle is fully road-legal, URoW are subject to the same laws as surfaced roads. When travelling in groups, keep to a small number - four or less.

Do not travel on URoW when they risk being affected beyond a point of natural recovery. Do not use URoW that maybe damaged by the wheel pressure applied by your vehicle. Avoid damage to trees, hedgerows and boundaries. Some roads carry vehicular rights but are physically too narrow for 4x4s. Do not practice recovery techniques on any URoW. Be courteous to other road users. Remember that wildlife faces many threats and URoW are valuable habitats. Glass-Uk.org

[angusb]

visiting Ikea

[GBMUD]

With time for reflection, it has occurred to me that I did not make it clearer that the people I am referring to are not the odd individual who has no experience, means no harm and makes an honest mistake. The people I refer to know damned well that what they are doing is wrong, at least to some degree - driving on fields, archaeology etc., we all know that is not right. To make it easier for these people to find places to 'trash' is to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Chris

[forestgrump]

Heading for another moderated out of existence thread here, Forestgrump has Sunday off and makes a right pain of himself.

I couldn't care less about green laning, I don't, I won't, it's a very very dull way to spend an afternoon. BUT. There is an established, historical, meaningful right to use these green lanes, generations have enjoyed that right, generations to come should enjoy that right. Totally and absolutely free of hindrance from the establishment. Men have endured slavery, partition, enclosure and death to live free with liberty in this ridiculously small and overcrowded island. To give up rights that mean something just because of a few selfish, ignorant, unfortunates is obscene.

However, green lanes are fragile, need to be protected and should be policed.

Rather than hide them away have a thousand youtube video's glorying in the fantastic qualities of green lanes and encouraging all users to respect and care for them. Grow the debate, grow the awareness, enlarge every life. Show the way in which the green lanes are used with integrity, care, responsibility. Prove that your rights that are enshrined are worth fighting for by everyone, not just everyone with a ridiculous Land Rover / Toyota / Suzuki / Unimog / Frankenstein hybrid. Write to your MP, inform your local papers, lead exemplary lives, make a positive contribution, in short PROVE that men in land rovers on green lanes are an asset to our ( greater ) community.

We are a society of tool using, pattern recognising, language equipped apes, our motivations and behaviour are not that hard to understand or that hard to influence. See the monkey driving badly, then report him ( or her ) pretty soon being an a***hole 4x4 driver will be as unpopular as an unpopular thing. Easy. The people causing the damage are probably all driving MOT failures, living with ASBO's, cheating on the social security, uninsured, unwaged, undesirable and at war with their ( probably very reasonable ) neighbours anyway, in short NO-ONE will mind when they get shut down, fined, jailed and otherwise evicted from their unwashed and antisocial lives. Might even get a round of applause.

It just takes concerted, consistent, informed, enlightened, persistent, co-ordinated and co-operative work.

Enough said

Looking forward to my second closed thread x

PS. If you have an ASBO I'm sorry if I have offended or in any way infringed your moral, human, civic, creative, copyrighted or just imagined rights in any way.

pps. if you like mud, pay and play

[Munster]

Hmm this is a much much debated topic isn't it, personally I think the 'don't tell anyone about these PUBLIC rights of way' attitude is wrong, narrow minded and frankly lazy.

4x4 damage the lanes making them un passable to walkers etc - RUBBISH, frankly I've seen one of these ruined tracks, and yes it was rutted and muddy and oh my god in parts you had to walk right on the edge to get by. I could do it on foot, so could anyone. If you look on the OS maps there are thousand of rights of way that cant be driven on so why shouldn't there be some that cant be walked on?

The tracks get ruined - rubbish - aside from littering, dumping fridges burned out cars etc a rack isn't ruined when its muddy or rutted, it's changed, I think people need to get some perspective here. In real terms 4x4 do not ruin tracks even if they do get muddy and rutted, its far less of an environmental impact than filling it with aggregate or scalpings, you might as well fill it with old beer cans.

I agree that if you get numpties driving all over farmers land or wrecking bushes and tree's etc its a bad thing, but a ban or controlling who uses these lanes is not the way forward and is an infringement on civil rights and hiding the whereabouts of the few lanes that you are allowed to drive along is just plain selfish. It would be like a blanket ban on firearms because the armed robbery stats go up, when in actual fact 99.9% of legally owned guns are not involved in crime at all. what are they going to do then bad unlicensed guns?

the way forward is to educate people, for farmers and forest workers (who tear up the tracks more than anyone else remember) to take measures to protect their land if they dont want people on it (and yes they should have to) and for people to accept that unsurfaced roads will errode, will get churned up, will get muddy - walkers/horse riders, if a road looks too muddy to pass, don't walk down it, find a footpath/bridleway to tiptoe over.

Closing all BOATS will not stop people from driving down them, it will just mean that the people who do choose to enjoy these lanes in their 4x4's will be breaking the law - whatever next.

[HoggyN]

Hmm this is a much much debated topic isn't it, personally I think the 'don't tell anyone about these PUBLIC rights of way' attitude is wrong, narrow minded and frankly lazy.

4x4 damage the lanes making them un passable to walkers etc - RUBBISH, frankly I've seen one of these ruined tracks, and yes it was rutted and muddy and oh my god in parts you had to walk right on the edge to get by. I could do it on foot, so could anyone. If you look on the OS maps there are thousand of rights of way that cant be driven on so why shouldn't there be some that cant be walked on?

Etc, etc..

I'll grant you that the sunken lanes that are characteristic of some counties were created by years of erosion caused by wheeled vehicles. However, like it or not, churned up public highways are, in this day and age, unacceptable to the majority. In fact, they probably never have been acceptable to the majority. Richard James, at Heywood in 1636, wrote…

“"Our ways are gulphs of durte mire, which none Scarce ever passe in summer without moane"”

A hundred years later another traveller described the roads of south Lancashire as "the vilest roads, a foot deep in mud, with ruts and holes in which a sheep might be hidden"

In days gone by there was no alternative to poor roads and travellers had no option but to use them. These days we don't have to use the lanes, we do it for pleasure. Because we do it for pleasure, not out of necessity, it could be argued (and is) that the mess we make is unnecessary and disproportionate to our numbers. This is a very strong argument for those that wish to ban us.

If we want to carry on with our pastime we need to give the antis as little ammunition as possible. Like it or not, muddy, deeply rutted lanes are perceived as being ruined. By intentionally driving a soft surfaced lane during, or immediately after a period of wet weather you are actively supporting the antis' campaign to close the lanes forever.

Don't do it.

[Munster]

Even so, the point is moot really, making the lanes illegal will only ever stop the responsible people who respect them, the chavs out there will do whatever the hell they want to do.

Chastising people for linking to byways is still wrong, and drives people away from forums like this where people come to learn and find out more about what we enjoy doing. If you take the fun out of it you push these people in the direction of the people who make spoiling it for everyone else look like fun.

Feel free to share your views but not to inflict them on people, in the end you're only right in your own opinion.

[GBMUD]

In days gone by there was no alternative to poor roads and travellers had no option but to use them. These days we don't have to use the lanes, we do it for pleasure. Because we do it for pleasure, not out of necessity, it could be argued (and is) that the mess we make is unnecessary and disproportionate to our numbers. This is a very strong argument for those that wish to ban us.

If we want to carry on with our pastime we need to give the antis as little ammunition as possible. Like it or not, muddy, deeply rutted lanes are perceived as being ruined. By intentionally driving a soft surfaced lane during, or immediately after a period of wet weather you are actively supporting the antis' campaign to close the lanes forever.

Don't do it.

Here here.

Even so, the point is moot really, making the lanes illegal will only ever stop the responsible people who respect them, the chavs out there will do whatever the hell they want to do.

That is an unfortunate fact that will not become apparent until it is too late for the majority. Rather like banning handguns etc..

I suspect that as far as the antis are concerned, we are all the same anyway; I bet that there is not differentiation between those of us who use the lanes in a responsible manner and those who do not - and will continue to (ab)use the lanes regardless.

Chastising people for linking to byways is still wrong, and drives people away from forums like this where people come to learn and find out more about what we enjoy doing. If you take the fun out of it you push these people in the direction of the people who make spoiling it for everyone else look like fun.

I have to disagree there. You would not give someone a hedge cutter without the instructions, why 'give' them a green lane without the knowledge to use it properly, safely and responsibly?

By not just publicising the location of green lanes, and especially not the ones in need of attention/rest, anyone wanting to get the details of a lane/s from LR4x4 will have to integrate here and in doing so, one hopes, learn some of the reasons why this is a hot potato just now and learn how to act responsibly and with due consideration for those who will go after them - be that in the short term or the longer term.

Chris

[Munster]

I have to disagree there. You would not give someone a hedge cutter without the instructions, why 'give' them a green lane without the knowledge to use it properly, safely and responsibly?

By not just publicising the location of green lanes, and especially not the ones in need of attention/rest, anyone wanting to get the details of a lane/s from LR4x4 will have to integrate here and in doing so, one hopes, learn some of the reasons why this is a hot potato just now and learn how to act responsibly and with due consideration for those who will go after them - be that in the short term or the longer term.

Thats all well and good, but treating people like naughty school children is not the way to do it. With all due respect, I dont know who the hell you or anyone else is, so if you start barking at me like a grumpy old headmaster I will just get annoyed and miss your point completely. By ranting and raving at entheusiatic people in the forums you are not doing your hobby any good at all. yes you may feel strongly about what you are saying but all you do is end up alienating yourself and anyone agrees with you just because of the tone you use the first time someone comes in contact with you. By doing this, if I were the chastisee in this case I would most likely respectfully ignore any further comments and carry on regardless (seeing as its not breaking any rules or laws) or simply leave this forum and go and find a friendlier one out of the thousands available.

I guess my point in all of this (being devils advocate) you all should be careful how you talk to people otherwise you will end up doing more harm than good.

As for green lanes well my personal view is that unfortunate as it is the day of us being able to use them are numbered so I will continue to use them while I can. If there are restrictions or TRO's I will leave them be. If I see other people I will be considerate and polite (more that can be said for most ramblers and horse riders I have come across in my time), I will not damage the surrounding land tor wildlife.

As green lanes are roads after all, shouldn't their maintenance be covered by our road fund license, are campaigners missing a trick here, shouldn't horse riders have to buy a bridleway license to help fund the maintenance of their dedicated rights of way?

Just out of interest, can someone post a picture of a lane damaged to the point where it is impassable by foot/cycle/horse

[GBMUD]

The maintenance of byways, RBs, bridleways and footpaths is funded by council tax payers.

'Road fund license' has been replaced by 'Vehicle excise duty', so there is not even a hint that they might spend it on roads any more.

'if you start barking at me like a grumpy old headmaster I will just get annoyed and miss your point completely'

I am not barking. If you choose to ignore me then that is up to you, the facts do not change and neither does my opinion.

I do not see it as my place to lecture anyone, but like you, if people are doing wrong or are in danger of doing so I am keen to tell them. In my case I would like that opportunity before they stray into getting it wrong rather than after. To return to my hedge trimmer analogy, better to gain instruction before you loose a finger than for someone to point out afterwards that you should hold the other end.

'Just out of interest, can someone post a picture of a lane damaged to the point where it is impassable by foot/cycle/horse'

I do not think that would be constructive, perhaps someone might PM one to you. This forum is frequented by people who would use such images out of context to give a negative portrayal of byway use. I am led to understand that Youtube is full to bursting with videos of such. I have not made a photographic study of lanes in poor condition, but here in Wiltshire they are numerous. Perhaps not yet where you live.

Chris