Aragorn Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Ok I've finally started work on my 90 rebuild after a long winter break, and i'm trying to get some things nailed down. I plan to be fitting a V8 engine from an Audi A8, It will be running on its standard EFI system, and i'm trying to work out the best approach. I currently have the standard side mounted tank, from the diesel. However the chassis i'm using is a TD5 item and has the mounts on the rear end for the TD5's fuel tank. I had originally planned to use the standard side tank and rig up something for the pump externally, but after doing some work on the 90 at the weekend, i'm looking at replacing the rear tub. The tub that was on there had been reversed into something and was all bent. I'd picked up a new quarter panel and was going to fit that, however it seems its a military quarter panel with lots of extra holes all down the side. Add to this the fact that most of the mounting points on the tub have corroded away, leaves me thinking it would be easier to simply buy a replacement tub. If i'm buying a replacement then it makes sense to buy a TD5 one with the rear mounted filler. What i'm trying to find out is what pump options i've got for the TD5. I presume the TD5 uses an in tank pump, and has some kinda integral swirl pot. I also note there is a 50th Anniversary Defender that uses the TD5 style tank and has an EFi V8 fitted from the factory. Does anyone know if it would be possible to use a standard TD5 tank, and retrofit either the correct 50th anniversary pump, or some generic aftermarket pump into the TD5 pump housing? Failing that, the other option might be to use the stndard TD5 pump, if it can generate the required fuel pressure, or use the TD5 pump to feed a small swirl pot, and then drive the high pressure pump from that? Thanks. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crwoody Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The td5 does indeed have an "in tank" fuel pump, it's designed to deliver 4 bar to the engine - 4 bar of diesel, just how long it would last pumping petrol is another matter? I like the idea of the Audi V8 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 I've just been scouring Microcat, and it seems there is a 2.8L 6cyl BMW engined landrover that uses a rear mounted TD5 style tank, and the assosciated pump etc. The tank looks VERY similar to a TD5 one, but the vent is in a slightly different place. Assuming LR built enough overhead into this 2.8L pump to supply fuel for the larger V8 engine then i think it could work just fine It would be nice to know if this BMW pump would fit into a standard TD5 tank, but i suspect they are rare enough that its just a big question mark! Paddocks want £150 +vat for the BMW tank, and a further £110 for the pump, however this doesnt seem toooo bad seen as they are new parts. Any other ideas or opinions would be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Why not just fit a normal tank with pickup tube & external high pressure pump? Make sure the pump is rated to draw fuel (most aren't) and you're away. What are you doing about the engine management on the Audi lump, what little I know of them suggests there's a fair bit of faffing round to make them run outside of an Audi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Most audi lumps pre circa 2001 are pretty streightforwards in terms of wiring. There are about 6 wires from the engine loom that go out to the car, and its just your basic signals, power, fuel pump relay, tacho, coolant temp etc. The immobiliser transponder is part of the audi ignition barrel, but i have the key, barrel and controller from the donor car, and will be wiring this all in to keep the engine imobiliser functional. Seen as i'm having to change the tub anyway, it seems like a good idea to use a TD5 tub, as they will generally be in better condition, and then use the TD5 tank mounted at the rear, istr the rear tank is also larger which is a bonus. If i could use a used TD5 tank that would make things a little cheaper i expect, however without seeing the tank and having the petrol pump to test fit its hard to tell if it would work, and £150 for a new tank isnt all that bad i guess... Using a factory tank setup with in tank pump will also ensure that i can take advantage of the swirl pot built into the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The fuel pump from a 4 litre discovery with a plastic fuel tank will fit with some minor mods, failing that a 50th anniversary pump will fit straight in. If you can use an LR fuel pump assembly you should do, the plastic tank ones have the best in tank swirl pot design I've ever come across, if i could figure out a reliable way of fitting one in to my aluminium tank I would have done by now ! I'm rebuilding Pam's 90 this year and picked up a plastic TD5 90 tank for a song off ebay and then acquired a 4.0 Disco fuel pump assembly with a knackered pump that was going in the skip at the local 4x4 specialists. The pump is about an inch too long but as they are sprung with a variable length it's just a case of shortening the rod that stops it going short enough to fit. I can probably sort some pics out at the weekend if it'll help. Current plan is to see if I can mount a RRC 3.9 pump into the 4.0 assembly or failing that I'll get a replacement unit as they are a LOT cheaper than the TD5 one. I don't want to butcher the TD5 pump assembly as it's in good working order and will probably sell for more second hand than a new 4.0 pump will cost as they're about double the price new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Using a factory tank setup with in tank pump will also ensure that i can take advantage of the swirl pot built into the tank. The swirl pot is built into the fuel pump assembly on the plastic tanks and very good it is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Aragorn, Tell us more about the Audi V8 conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 knowing i can use a TD5 tank defo helps, cheers. microcat wasnt so sure about the 50th pump etc, it seems to be a completely different design to the TD5/2.8L ones in terms of fitting the tank, but again ive never actually seen one. I'll see what i can find. If i can get a cheap TD5 tank, and use a Disco 4.0 pump then that sounds a pretty decent way to go. Any particular model of disco i need to get the pump from? Is it a Disco2 part? Any part numbers etc would be much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Aragorn,Tell us more about the Audi V8 conversion. Not much to tell at the moment. I've picked up a 4.2L Audi V8 from an A8 from ebay. Its a modern 32v DOHC motor which produces 300hp out the box. The going rate for them is around 500quid, which makes it excellent value, and i'm hoping with it being a nice modern design then it will do a bit better on fuel than a clatty old Rover V8. The plan is to use a TDI R380 box, and create a custom bell housing using the first 2 inches or so from the original Audi box welded to the TDI bellhousing. Its all in early stages atm. I've just put the axles onto the new galvy chassis this week, and will be starting on the other stages of the conversion over the next few months. Just trying to work out the finer details like the fuelling and gearing. I suspect i MAY need to use a later TD5 spec R380 box (ive spoken to ashcroft and he informs me they are stronger), but i want to use a TDi clutch, as i hope to use a TDI friction plate and the Audi coverplate, and the audi flywheel takes a 240mm clutch, which the TDi has. This means i'm going to stick with a 300TDi R380 box for now, but should it die then i'll have to look at fitting a TDI input shaft to a later TD5-spec box. The V8's peak torque is around 380-390NM, and is above 300NM all the way from idle to the redline. A TD5 motor makes a peak of around 290NM, but chipped ones can make a peak of over 400nm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Any part numbers etc would be much appreciated! It's from either a Disco 2 or a P38, I'll try and find out for sure for you. Visually the top of the pump assemblies all look the same whether it be a Freelander, Disco, Range Rover etc... I know you can also get a "pump assembly" to screw into the hole and allow the use of an external pump because one of the Defenders with an LS1 engine has a plastic Disco 2 fuel tank with just a pickup in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Not much to tell at the moment.I've picked up a 4.2L Audi V8 from an A8 from ebay. Its a modern 32v DOHC motor which produces 300hp out the box. The going rate for them is around 500quid, which makes it excellent value, and i'm hoping with it being a nice modern design then it will do a bit better on fuel than a clatty old Rover V8. Good stuff.... Don't forget to take a few photos and post them up when you have the odd minute to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 I will do, the photos from this weeks work are here: http://www.lr90.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=141 I'll be keeping it updated as i go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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