Warthog Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Morning Gents, Looking at 2nd hand 3 Phase welders at present, but not having a 3 Phase supply has led me to looking at 3Ph Generators. Theres a few about, that are reasonably priced at around the 6Kva power rating (5.5Kva Continous) With the capability to run sensitive equipment on them. Am i being too optimistic, to think this power output. Would cope with say 250amp max for AC tig? Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 What is the power requirement of the welder? My limited experience of welding off generators is that you really want a decent genset bigger than the "theoretical requirement" of the welder i.e. if your welder needs 5KVA then you probably need an 8-10KVA generator to be comfortable - welding has huge fluctuations in the current draw as you will see if you weld on the same circuit as there are lights switched on - they flicker like hell as the AVR in the genset struggles to keep the voltage steady. I don't know but I strongly suspect that the peaks require a set with a higher max output - and AVRs don't really like welders either so running a set near its max capacity may end up with you needing a new AVR at some point - and they ain't cheap (the ones in our Lister HR/TS are about £350 odd I think!). I think you'll find that the proper industrial sets like Listers may cope better with this sort of load than a made in China jobbie - we used to run the farm's arc welder off a 7KVA Lister TS2 and it worked OK but that was only about 150 amp. I'd suggest it might be better to get a second hand decent set than a new cheapo one. I have a cheapo Hyundai single phase genset (this one) to run a house I am doing up at the moment, but I don't think I'd try welding off it Just my 2p, not so much as a welder but as somebody who grew up living off diesel generators - no mains power out in the sticks down here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 This guy managed to ask the same thing in the right section of the forum: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=40549 Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Tig sets require a nice steady power supply. In my experience running a high amperage set of a genny will cause the set to fail. So set are "gen safe " but not the best. Whats wrong with a 240v set apart from cost!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Whats wrong with a 240v set apart from cost!? Your right there The price you pay for a 240v set is silly money. Hav'nt found a 240v set that has "Continous HF" on it? Why do i want continous HF? Its what i use at work on Alluminium, and it makes life alot easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 This guy managed to ask the same thing in the right section of the forum:http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=40549 Al Ah well! Some grown up will come along and move it to the "Right" section Cheers for the link anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Your right there The price you pay for a 240v set is silly money.Hav'nt found a 240v set that has "Continous HF" on it? Why do i want continous HF? Its what i use at work on Alluminium, and it makes life alot easier We got an ACDC migatronic Pi 200 thats 240v. $$$'s for sure. Whats continuous HF? You mean a latched button? By nature the current switches between ac/dc so i'm stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I have the option on my TIG machine to switch the HF to Off, Start or Continuous. With the HF set to start, it will activate to establish a weld pool, and then stop - used for DC welding - set to continuous, you get HF all the time, helping to restablish the arc after every switch of polarity (ie on AC welding). Off is used for arc welding. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Do you need a Genny because you need to be mobile. or just to run a 3-phase welder? I have a 3-phase pillar drill that runs off an inverter. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 You'd need the mother of all inverters I think Les. Some of my 300A machines draw over 100A at 230V on full whack. Obviously that drops quite a bit when running at 415V. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integerspin Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't know anything about generators, could you run an old transformer welder[tig] off one? I was wondering about the unbalanced load with only two phases being used. HF continuous on my welders has mean't it works continuous on AC, but stops after arc starting on DC. I ran a 300 syncrowave at home on domestic supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I have the option on my TIG machine to switch the HF to Off, Start or Continuous. With the HF set to start, it will activate to establish a weld pool, and then stop - used for DC welding - set to continuous, you get HF all the time, helping to restablish the arc after every switch of polarity (ie on AC welding). Off is used for arc welding.Mark No such option here...fully auto on the PI! Self senseing even down to polarity so now need to swith the pos and neg around on the front of the set! I have been spoiled. Most new ,decent, TIG sets are fully auto now. Tried the Kempiis aswell but price has alot to do with most purchases i beliveve. Some ggod second hand, read repossed, plant around at the mo. Try some of the online plant sales auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 What you need to run a 3ph Tig set is a big old set with a transformer type AVR,I've been through the niceties of wrecking electronic ones - I now have a hybrid one with "Extra frontal suppresion" and I have a balanced 1Kw load across each phase all the time to flatten it all off. My Tig is a Thermal Dynamics 300A AC/DC set which runs off the 3 phases and the HF goes off automatically on AC once it has established the arc - it is supposed to give a better weld.Most early sets only run across 2 so you need to be careful not to overload the two you end up using.I think this has also wrecked a few genny's as well as the HF spiking back up and trashing thew AVR. Whats really nice is to have a slow running 6 cyl Gardner or similar and a sodding great old GEC alternator - last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 No such option here...fully auto on the PI! Self senseing even down to polarity so now need to swith the pos and neg around on the front of the set! I have been spoiled.Most new ,decent, TIG sets are fully auto now. Tried the Kempiis aswell but price has alot to do with most purchases i beliveve. Maybe im a little behind whats available? The Fronius/Lincoln sets that i use at work are silly money (5K+) But all have Continous HF. When trying to weld Ally without it, seems pretty awkward, if your electrode drifts away from the weld pool for a split second. The Cont HF, seem to just ease that? Maybe im just carp at it Maybe i need to look into all the new technology available using a 240 single phase set? What you need to run a 3ph Tig set is a big old set with a transformer type AVR,I've been through the niceties of wrecking electronic ones - I now have a hybrid one with "Extra frontal suppresion" and I have a balanced 1Kw load across each phase all the time to flatten it all off.My Tig is a Thermal Dynamics 300A AC/DC set which runs off the 3 phases and the HF goes off automatically on AC once it has established the arc - it is supposed to give a better weld.Most early sets only run across 2 so you need to be careful not to overload the two you end up using.I think this has also wrecked a few genny's as well as the HF spiking back up and trashing thew AVR. Whats really nice is to have a slow running 6 cyl Gardner or similar and a sodding great old GEC alternator - last forever. My heads spinning........cheers for the reply. This subject is mine field (head spinninig) Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Why not go and test drive some new inverter 240V jobbers? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 what about using a rotary phase convertor rather than a inverter type? Not sure how exactly the TIG would like running from a rotary convertor, but they're pretty cheap to setup and get reasonably big power outputs from. (from my understanding you can basically build one yourself using a big 3 phase electric motor and some gubbins to get it spinning) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Maybe im a little behind whats available? The Fronius/Lincoln sets that i use at work are silly money (5K+) But all have Continous HF. When trying to weld Ally without it, seems pretty awkward, if your electrode drifts away from the weld pool for a split second. The Cont HF, seem to just ease that? Maybe im just carp at it Maybe i need to look into all the new technology available using a 240 single phase set? My heads spinning........cheers for the reply. This subject is mine field (head spinninig) Cheers Mark If your down pop in and have a play.We have a Migatronic PI 200 acdc 240v set which we use exclsively for alloys. My fave is the 300 amp synergic MIG. It will even pulse in a bead to look like TIG work!!!! great for land rover Fabs http://www.migatronic.com/default.aspx?m=2&i=171 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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