Marco Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Hi, I'm struggling with getting the right spring set-up. It started off fine with HD spings at the front + OME 754 at the back. Old set-up with (heavy) Quadtec rear body. Two years ago the body has been modified into a 130 Stationwagon + Britpart HD rear springs DA4279 (40.7 mm 330 lbs/in). All fine until last spring, vehicle bit sagging. So I did change front springs into Britpart HD + refitted my OME 754 springs at the back. That set-up turned out to be not that great, to much lift at the back + new front springs bit sagging. From there I changed into D44F springs (Devon 4x4) Marketed as D44F and "their own springs" produced by OME, in fact it's OME764 Springs branded as D44F, no difference at all, pure marketing (it's officially a D90/RR/Disco rear spring). I did choose those based on the fact I've a winch fitted + protection plate. The springs have been fine for getting the vehicle back to level but the extra height is to much affecting the (on road) handling which I do not like. Rear OME754 Front Britpart HD standard height DA4277 = sagging at front, bit high at the back Rear OME754 Front D44F (OME764) = front + rear equally raised but handling much worse (highway) The question... what to do next as I'm unhappy with the current set-up. I do not want to spend another load of cash on expensive brand springs ending up with either a soft or to much raised ride. Ideal would be a spring set-up like the OME755 at the back (43.5 mm 330lbs/in) and front (40.0 mm 220 lbs/in). Based on production data and the trial and error with fitting strong/weak springs to my 130. To keep costs down I can fit at the front the DA4202 (Britpart) 39.0 mm 230lbs/in (raising the front a bit compared to DA4277 37.6 mm 225lbs/in) and buy Britpart DA4208 for the back (same rating as OME754 but expect those to sag bit more than OME). The other alternative is to buy OME 755 and try that first with the weaker DA4277 front ones. BUT OME is much more expensive... Any advice welcome, e.g. an alternative to OME755 produced by Bearmach, Britpart or other manufacturer? Cheers Marco Below OME754 + DA4277 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 First, standard rear on a 110 without Boge self leveler is 330 lbs/inch and 407 mm long. That is driver's side, passenger's is supposed to be 395 mm. Nothing HD when it comes to these. Front HD springs are 225 lbs/inch and 376 mm long on passenger's side, a little more on driver's. These work fine even on a standard vehicle IMHO giving a little more firmness in the steering without being bouncy. They gave a lift of 40 mm on mine with a MileMarker up front, maybe 50 kg together with its bracket. Question is really how much heavier yours is in the rear compared to a 110... And if you want any lift. My current setup is OME 761 driver's (200 lbs and 399 mm) on both sides at the front and OME 755 (280 lbs and 434 mm) at the rear. The resulting lift was not more than 10-15 mm which suits me fine. Most driving is made with the bed empty or with rather light loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks for the reply, spring rating for Britpart HD is indeed about the same as standard (HD) springs. So HD Britpart front = Land Rover HD front as fas as I can see. At my vehicle there is no lift at all with this set-up (heavy duty springs, standard height) at the front. Guess the 130 is about 2200 kg including gear. When still Quatec it used to be empty (without winch) 2220kg. But right now with winch and +/- 50-75 kg sound proofing, winch (+/- 60kg), protection plate, highlift, some alu boxes, fluids, tools, spares etc. I estimate at least back to 2200kg's and 2300-2500 incl. fuel, driver & passenger. Standard Britpart HD rear springs have been fine when new.... DA4279 330lbs/in 407mm (fitted at conversion Quadtec to station body). But I did remove the self leveller and after 1.5 years the back started to sag. There is no real need for any additional lift, I just do not want to have it sagging at the back. OME755 could be fine but as 280lbs/in is the right spec. the 300lbs/in as listed on Devon 4x4 is not correct and expect the spring to be just to weak for my 130. Fitting standard 110/130 springs + helper spring (like original spec) could be an alternative but prefer a single spring. Something in between OME754 and 755 should have the right spec.... I've found Bearmach BA2100B 420lbs/420mm, only just lighter/shorter than OME754 (which are to strong..). A rear spring with specs 330-350lbs/in and 430mm would be ideal I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I think that the spec of your Britpart springs is OK, another question is the quality... Buy yourself a set of genuine springs for the rear and I'm sure they will last longer than 18 months. My OMEs have been on now for at least 5 years without any sagging. Terrafirma TF019 are 300 lbs and 434 mm. They might be an option as they probably sink to get a normal look when loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazelle Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Would this help? LR90's Spring Calculator Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 This might: http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html Or this: http://www.4x4store-exeter.co.uk/catalog/The%204x4%20store%20rr%20ca/RR%20web%20gallery/SPRINGS.HTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks. I'm aware of those links, most comfortable would be to fit several spring options and just try it... but that's going to be a bit expensive. At this stage I do have the OME ones which are nice but to strong. Maybe sell them off or keep them for some new expedition usage whenever that will happen Fitting genuine springs is an option, but e.g. NRC6904 and NRC6389 have same rating as the old Britpart HD ones, they might last longer. Did notice RKB101111 on the spring chart, TD5 Defender 110 and progressive. Not sure of those will do the job as initial load is bit low 270 lbs/in, partly compressed 420 lbs/in which is better. TF019 is another alternative, do not see the specs on the official TF website.... Or get a 'normal' 110 Defender! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Lighter springs and airlift bags. Adjust the pressure to suit the load. If you want to measure the height of the current springs, I can figure out height changes with different springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 If you want to measure the height of the current springs, I can figure out height changes with different springs. Thanks, I've just measured the height of the springs as on the vehicle right now. No driver but with all standard gear and 1/3 tank of fuel. RH + LH front = 315 mm (OME764 - 220lbs/in uncompressed factory data 430 mm) NEW 2009 Springs RH + LH rear = 350 ~ 360 mm, difficult to take exact length. (OME754 - 420lbs/in uncompressed factory data 435 mm) Probably 2002/3 used for +/- 80.000 km until 2007, refitted last June A 50 mm / 2 inch drop front + rear is what I'm looking for. Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Would this help? LR90's Spring Calculator Martin I've filled in estimate weight data (front 2204 lbs and rear 2689 lbs based on +/- 2220kg total vehicle weight) and to my surprise the calculator did produce +/- the same data as just measured on my vehicle. Not sure if the estimates for front and rear weight distribution are right but I'm surprised with the result. Front: me 315 mm, calculator 307 mm (NEW OME 764 springs) Rear: me 350 ~ 360 mm, calculator 36,3 mm (USED OME 754 springs) Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Guess the 130 is about 2200 kg including gear. When still Quatec it used to be empty (without winch) 2220kg. But right now with winch and +/- 50-75 kg sound proofing, winch (+/- 60kg), protection plate, highlift, some alu boxes, fluids, tools, spares etc. I estimate at least back to 2200kg's and 2300-2500 incl. fuel, driver & passenger. Are you sure about this? Guessing wont help. We took my friends 110 onto a weighbridge a week or two back, its a commercial, and that weighed in at 2100Kgs almost empty..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Are you sure about this? Guessing wont help. We took my friends 110 onto a weighbridge a week or two back, its a commercial, and that weighed in at 2100Kgs almost empty..... I agree, it's better to drive it onto a weight bridge to get it right. This side it's possible to drive it to the local council garbage dump, they do have a scale and (paid) weight service. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Marco, Just for comparison, here is the measured result on mine, with a MileMarker hydraulic and homebrewn bracket: Front with as good as new HD springs (225 lbs/376 mm free length) 280 mm. This means 385 kg on each spring. With new OME 761 driver's on both sides (200 lbs/399 mm free length). Calculated 292 mm with 385 kg. And sure enough, that's about what happened. Rear with used standard springs (330 lbs/407 and 395 mm free length) 340 and 335 mm. With new OME 755 (280 lbs/434 mm free length). Calculated 359 mm which in reality came out as approx 350 mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Pic of present stance, rear wheel is a bit too low down because of uneven ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I've been to the weight bridge today and guess.... my estimate is a bit on the low side! On the bridge 2680kg's incl. me and the wife so let's bring that back to +/- 2550kg's for vehicle including winch, tools and gear normally packed in some boxes. Fuel tank almost empty. It's much more than expected, "ejparrott" was right with questioning my estimated 2200kg empty. Still on the puzzle with exact weight some proper calculations can be made. Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Pic of present stance, rear wheel is a bit too low down because of uneven ground... Thanks for your help + picture of your vehicle, looks neat. Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 You stated earlier that your front springs were almost new. Measure how long they are on the vehicle and compare with their free length. We know how much weight is needed to compress them one inch. This way, you can count "backwards" to see how much weight they support. BTW, mm and kg is a lot easier to use for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 You stated earlier that your front springs were almost new. Measure how long they are on the vehicle and compare with their free length. We know how much weight is needed to compress them one inch. This way, you can count "backwards" to see how much weight they support. BTW, mm and kg is a lot easier to use for me... Hi Lars, It's in my post above re Red90: Thanks, I've just measured the height of the springs as on the vehicleright now. No driver but with all standard gear and 1/3 tank of fuel. RH + LH front = 315 mm (OME764 - 220lbs/in uncompressed factory data 430 mm) NEW 2009 Springs RH + LH rear = 350 ~ 360 mm, difficult to take exact length. (OME754 -420lbs/in uncompressed factory data 435 mm) Probably 2002/3 used for+/- 80.000 km until 2007, refitted last June Used lbs as quoted by the spring companies... 1lbs = 0.45359237 kg and 1 inch = 25,4 mm so a 220lbs/in spring is 99,97kg/25,4mm... Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Sorry that I have not had time to look. If you are not in a rush, I'll look next week. I'm off to a trials over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I would be causious with OME data. I just got an emial from OME´s president and they acknowlege their data is a "bit too old". All this because their advertized lift is cr#p. And I do not know if red90´s results are from experimental data or theory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 I've made some additional pictures. Front wheel with OME764, rear OME754, full side view of vehicle and the OME764 vs yellow Britpart HD (220lbs/in & same rating as NRC9449). IMO the front is to high, especially on the LH passenger side. My vehicle is RHD. At this stage I do consider to get genuine Land Rover front springs, NRC9448 and NRC9449. Probably better quality than the yellow Britpart with same specs. But have not yet decided... Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I had a bit of a look. On the front, NRC9448 and NRC9449 should do what you want. On the rear, OME 755 might work, but I'm not sure of the data, plus the spring rate might be too low for your liking if it is correct. You could us NRC6904/6389 which will drop you a bit too much. If you include Airlift bags with them, it would give you around the 50 mm drop at the minimum pressure of 5 psi and allow you to maintain that height as load is added by increasing the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I would be causious with OME data. I just got an emial from OME´s president and they acknowlege their data is a "bit too old". All this because their advertized lift is cr#p. And I do not know if red90´s results are from experimental data or theory... FYI, this webpage is mine, http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html Certainly some data is quite suspect. Ones that I have seen or had other measure are noted and I have adjusted data based on calculations and not actual testing. Maybe I should build a spring tester... Maybe someone could convince ARB to dig up their test data and send it to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 I had a bit of a look. On the front, NRC9448 and NRC9449 should do what you want. On the rear, OME 755 might work, but I'm not sure of the data, plus the spring rate might be too low for your liking if it is correct. You could us NRC6904/6389 which will drop you a bit too much. If you include Airlift bags with them, it would give you around the 50 mm drop at the minimum pressure of 5 psi and allow you to maintain that height as load is added by increasing the pressure. Thanks for the sheet. It does support my own calculations. For the rear spring I will probably now go for the Terra Firma (Allmakes) TF019, that one has a slighly higher rating than OME755. (TF019 300lbs/in at 435mm). With those springs at the back the front will be replaced with the previous fitted yellow Britpart ones (same rating as NRC9449). If those are to weak I might go for original springs or Terra Firma TF018. Will try first before spending more cash. By now changing springs is not that time consuming OME764/D44F, I will try to sell off to a Range Rover or Ninety owner or somebody with 110 looking for more lift. Cheers Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I understand OME755 is 300lb/in and not 280. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.