Short R380 to a 200Tdi - clutch release mech

[Maverik]

Fitting a R380 Shorty to a Transplanted 200 Disco in my 90.

I'm just looking at the Clutch release mechanism, for the R380, from people's previous experience are there any parts that are interchangeable between R380 and LT77 units? or have I got to find a whole new linkage? - anyone got any bits they don't want?

Cheers

Mav

[western]

You can use the same operating fork,slipper pads x 2, release bearing,cylinder pushrod from the LT77, the slave cylinder needs to be the Tdi version to fit the flywheel housing location.

[evolwood]

You can use the same operating fork,slipper pads x 2, release bearing,cylinder pushrod from the LT77, the slave cylinder needs to be the Tdi version to fit the flywheel housing location.

EEEkkk, No ralph, not the same release bearing and not the same push rod.

The push rod will be far too long and the standard release bearing will cause the clutch to never quite release fully causing very premature wear. I've got the part numbers written down somewhere if ya need em.

[JonR]

You can use the same operating fork,slipper pads x 2, release bearing,cylinder pushrod from the LT77, the slave cylinder needs to be the Tdi version to fit the flywheel housing location.

I'm in the process of doing this conversion. Ralph is correct EXCEPT for the release bearing and push rod, which are different. Since the bell housing is 30mm shorter the push rod is shorter and the release bearing is slimmer. For those you need the following:

Push rod FTC4229

Release bearing UTJ100210

The push rod is quite expensive, around £35. I got mine from Hollandrover, genuine part for £10 or you could make your own by shortening a standard push rod to exactly 65mm.

In addition, you will need to change the diff lock linkage to the later type if the existing one is the straight U shaped channel version. The connections for the reversing light switch will also require modification.

Mine should be finished by christmas

Jon.

[western]

EEEkkk, No ralph, not the same release bearing and not the same push rod.

The push rod will be far too long and the standard release bearing will cause the clutch to never quite release fully causing very premature wear. I've got the part numbers written down somewhere if ya need em.

OOPS, forget the LT77 pushrod, use the Tdi item FTC3912

I've got this release bearing

FTC5200 for 90/110 from 1986 on.

in my R380/200tdi supersedes the FRC9568 which is listed on both the parts diagrams

clutch friction plate & pressure cover is common to both gearboxes when connected to a 200tdi.

[western]

I'm in the process of doing this conversion. Ralph is correct EXCEPT for the release bearing and push rod, which are different. Since the bell housing is 30mm shorter the push rod is shorter and the release bearing is slimmer. For those you need the following:

Push rod FTC4229

Release bearing UTJ100210

The push rod is quite expensive, around £35. I got mine from Hollandrover, genuine part for £10 or you could make your own by shortening a standard push rod to exactly 65mm.

In addition, you will need to change the diff lock linkage to the later type if the existing one is the straight U shaped channel version. The connections for the reversing light switch will also require modification.

Mine should be finished by christmas

Jon.

those are 300Tdi release bearing & pushrod we are talking 200tdi here

[JonR]

those are 300Tdi release bearing & pushrod we are talking 200tdi here

Ashcroft parts list

Have a look at the above, scroll down to the parts list for confirmation of the release bearing that is needed.

'Jimmy Neutron' posted a parts list on here as part of a discussion about converting a standard R380 to a short shaft version.

Jimmys list The list is at the bottom of the page.

A few more days and I'll be able to report if the aforementioned parts work or not.

Jon.

[evolwood]

OOPS, forget the LT77 pushrod, use the Tdi item FTC3912

I've got this release bearing

FTC5200 for 90/110 from 1986 on.

in my R380/200tdi supersedes the FRC9568 which is listed on both the parts diagrams

clutch friction plate & pressure cover is common to both gearboxes when connected to a 200tdi.

TBH western you should have a UTJ100210 release bearing. They are much the same, except for the price, but are cut away on the back where the slippers go and have a slightly shallower bearing part. Not worth taking the box off to change it unless you start getting clutch slippage. Reason i say sliuppage is that as the clutch plate wears, the fingers on the pressure plate stick out more and this is when you need the extra room provided by UTJ100210.

[western]

Maybe I should BUT when my R380 was fitted the UTJ100210 release bearing didn't exist, plus the existing bearing version has been fine in the previous R380.

& why does LRSeries state it's for a long bell housing R380 on 300TDi

BEARING CLUTCH RELEASE

Part number: UTJ100210

Applicable Models:

Defender,

Wolf XD.

Product Description:

300 TDi engine models, clutch release bearing.

http://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=677

mine looks exactly the same so afaik it maybe the newer part number, but had FTC5200 on the box & no it's not a britpart item.

[JonR]

Apparently UTJ100210 superceedes FTC4177.

In contrast to LRseries, Beamends description "Clutch Release Bearing - Defender 4-Cylinder (Not Tdi) R380" and the parts book I have confirms this.

But anyway, returning to the point of this thread and not wishing to confuse Maverik any further, would it be fair to suggest that it would be best if he uses the Ashcroft parts list with the addition of FTC4229 for the push rod?

Hollandrover FTC4229

Jon.

[western]

I think going with the listed parts on the Ashcroft site is the best move at least the guys there will be able to give 1st class advice.

[evolwood]

I think going with the listed parts on the Ashcroft site is the best move at least the guys there will be able to give 1st class advice.

Agreed ... http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_119.html Good prices as well at £24 for the release bearing i mentioned

[Maverik]

Thanks guys, glad we got that thrashed out, I got some parts for the cluch with the new box so I'll check off ahscrofts list of what I've got and make up the rest.

Some good answers thanks.

Feel free to help with my latest thread, its more fundimental engine this time.

Mav

[tomaco1]

On 12/15/2009 at 6:53 PM, western said:

OOPS, forget the LT77 pushrod, use the Tdi item FTC3912

I've got this release bearing

FTC5200 for 90/110 from 1986 on.

in my R380/200tdi supersedes the FRC9568 which is listed on both the parts diagrams

clutch friction plate & pressure cover is common to both gearboxes when connected to a 200tdi.

Digging this up From the dead, but as far as the slave pushrod goes, Dave from Ashcroft says to use the one from the 200tdi/lt77

has anyone used the original one when doing the LT77 to stumpy380? 

Thanks 

 

[western]

On my last clutch change pretty sure I used this slave cylinder pushrod ---------- FTC4229

[tomaco1]

Thanks, from what I read it seems it's just a bit shorter 

[Maverik]

What I actually did in the end was shorted the rod I had to exactly 65mm a good 40k miles later and on the 2nd clutch and she's still going strong. 

[western]

15 hours ago, western said:

On my last clutch change pretty sure I used this slave cylinder pushrod ---------- FTC4229

found my parts invoice when I replaced the slave cylinder pushrod, it was FTC4229 I used.

[garryc]

apologies for resurrecting a thread. But I found it via the search function. I know my vehicle is a Lightweight and this is the Defender forum but this question applies to r380 stumpy gearboxes.

In short having reverse bled the clutch, I've got a solid pedal with no travel.

My set-up is a 300tdi, stumpy bellhousing on an r380. It's in a Lightweight. When I built it up before installing it back in the vehicle I fitted an HD clutch fork, standard release bearing and standard push-rod. I've read various views on shorter push-rods and different release bearings versus standard and I'd be grateful for the feedback and advice of people who've got a good working set-up; and what they used.

Thank you.

 

[western]

Stumpy R380 clutch parts are [as fitted to my 1989 110CSW for the last 20 plus years] 

release bearing UJT100210

Pressure cover URB100760

Friction plate UQB000130.

Slave cylinder 591231

Push rod FTC4229

Release lever FTC4173

if the LT77 bearing is used which is approx 10mm longer the clutch won't operate correctly & create slipping as it cannot clear from the pressure plate.

the R380 stumpy clutch housing is approx 11cm from front to rear faces, the LT77 one is a bit longer.

 

[bill.b]

On 12/20/2016 at 4:44 PM, Maverik said:

What I actually did in the end was shorted the rod I had to exactly 65mm a good 40k miles later and on the 2nd clutch and she's still going strong. 

Hey Mav, 

I am currently mating a 300tdi with a r380 and stubby Ashcroft bell housing into my 2A. I have a standard 300tdi clutch, pressure plate and release bearing. Obviously my existing pushrod from my discovery doner is too long. Am I correct in stating if I shorten my clutch slave push Rod to 65mm exactly it should work? Despite having the standard 300tdi release bearing. Appreciate the help, I can’t believe more people have not run into this problem. I also can not believe Ashcroft does not state these problems on their website. 
 

Cheers. 
 

bill 

Edited July 6, 2020 by bill.b

[western]

The 'stumpy/stubby'R380 was meant as a retrofit to 4 cylinder 2.5 petrol & diesel vehicle up to & including 200tdi, I'm not aware of it ever being bolted to the rear of a 300tdi, which in Defenders had the R380 from new but with the longer clutch housing as the engine sits over the front axle & higher than the engines in older vehicles. 

at a guess I reckon you need the full release system as for a 200tdi & stumpy R380.

[bill.b]

1 hour ago, western said:

The 'stumpy/stubby'R380 was meant as a retrofit to 4 cylinder 2.5 petrol & diesel vehicle up to & including 200tdi, I'm not aware of it ever being bolted to the rear of a 300tdi, which in Defenders had the R380 from new but with the longer clutch housing as the engine sits over the front axle & higher than the engines in older vehicles. 

at a guess I reckon you need the full release system as for a 200tdi & stumpy R380.

In the Ashcroft FAQ page. It states this bell housing can be mated to the 300tdi. 
 

https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions/r380-faq-s.html

[western]

This is the Stumpy R380, 

https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes/short-bellhousing-r380.html

I'm not saying it won't fit, just that it was never meant to be attached to the 300tdi, as you have read only some of the bell housing to cv lutch housing bolts can be aligned & fitted. 

 

[Maverik]

9 hours ago, bill.b said:

Hey Mav, 

I am currently mating a 300tdi with a r380 and stubby Ashcroft bell housing into my 2A. I have a standard 300tdi clutch, pressure plate and release bearing. Obviously my existing pushrod from my discovery doner is too long. Am I correct in stating if I shorten my clutch slave push Rod to 65mm exactly it should work? Despite having the standard 300tdi release bearing. Appreciate the help, I can’t believe more people have not run into this problem. I also can not believe Ashcroft does not state these problems on their website. 
 

Cheers. 
 

bill 

I believe yes it should work if you shorted the rod to 65mm - my rational is thus - I have fitted a 300td to an LT77, we used all the original LT77 clutch gear and it the standard 300tdi flywheel and pressure plate. so if you set up the R380 stumpy ( as standard ) - then that should hook up to a 300tdi too as the LT77/R380 were interchangeable.

As Ralph states, its just a bit of an unusual combination hence why you can't find any info on it.