Sultanas, edis, coil packs and 24 volts

[istruggle2gate11]

Hello all,

Made the transistion from LR to Unimog and life is good!......

However the mog is carb and dizzy, I have tasted the blood of MS+Edis and I want more......

The mechanics of going injected are no issue - injection components from a beemer 6 pot, fuel pump from a RR, Edis from a cossy Granny etc...

Its the electrickery thats my "grey area"....

The mog is 24volts and I wish to keep it that way for a number of reasons, I need 12volts for the MS, Edis and Fuel Pump.

I can buy a 24v to 12v dropper that can give out 20amps for circa £25. Is 20amps enough?

Guessing:

Megasquirt = 2amps max

Fuel Pump = 8 amps (rangie was a 10amp fuse)

Edis = 2 amps (total guess)

Coil Packs = ?amps - I have no idea - do you?

Ideas/guidance gratefully received

(a certain grumpy git might dragh out his soldering iron and scribe some calcs onto the screen?)

[steve_d]

The circuit info I have been using give:-

pump 10

EDIS 20

Lambda 5

EAV 2

Injectors 10

MS 2

Steve

[istruggle2gate11]

Thanks Steve,

Edis = 20a = wow!(including coil packs i assume?)

I dont keep the lamda sensor, set up with a wide band and disconnect, so 5amp saved!

might have to rethink or use a heavy duty dropper?

[FridgeFreezer]

I think Steve's ratings are probably fuse ratings rather than current consumption in use. I would hope 20A would be OK provided it was a proper 20A dropper rather than "20A for 1 nanosecond then 5A continuous if you're lucky" kinda thing. I've not actually measured or done the maths recently so don't quote me on any of this.

[Pete Attryde]

I don't know anything about Mogs, but does it use 2 batteries in series to create the 24v?

If it does just take the power for the pump,squirt etc off 1 of the batteries as this would be 12v, it is a smaller enough drain that it would be in my opinion unlikely to cause any issues.

Pete.

[istruggle2gate11]

I don't know anything about Mogs, but does it use 2 batteries in series to create the 24v?

If it does just take the power for the pump,squirt etc off 1 of the batteries as this would be 12v, it is a smaller enough drain that it would be in my opinion unlikely to cause any issues.

Pete.

Thanks guys.

Re taking off just one battery, in my rather hit and run attitude towards life, this is the option most favourable to me!

Im so uneducated in the way of the trickery that I do not know the implications of just drawing off one battery.

[Pete Attryde]

In a series connected system i'm not sure there will be any issues, in a parallel system it can cause the batteries to discharge each other.

We used to do this to get 12v on 24v fire engines and never had any problems.

If you take the feed off the positive terminal of the battery with the(vehicle)earth connected to it you could make all the earths for the squirt etc on the chassis/body rather than having to take them back to the batteries.

Pete.

[Soren Frimodt]

Well welcome to the Mog world then! Enjoy your stay, and remember although the 404 seems simple, it takes all sorts of special tools to do even the smallest repairs when it comes to the drivetrain. If your used to old Landys you'll be surprised!

Re: Injection have seen this?: http://www.raawfab.com/product_installations_and_f/electronic_fuel_injection_f.html

[istruggle2gate11]

Thanks Pete, Im thinking along the lines of using your method to get up and running, then find a suitable dropper in time.

Well welcome to the Mog world then! Enjoy your stay, and remember although the 404 seems simple, it takes all sorts of special tools to do even the smallest repairs when it comes to the drivetrain. If your used to old Landys you'll be surprised!

Re: Injection have seen this?: http://www.raawfab.com/product_installations_and_f/electronic_fuel_injection_f.html

Hi Soren, I was looking at your build on difflock, nice!

Hmmmm, raawfab looks nice and easy - just the £££££'s or should I say $$$$$'s and I have been through enough pain with MSnS & MSnEdis to feel comfortable with them. And I can rape a BMW 6 pot just around the corner, all parts for £50!

My plans are to squirt it then do the 8 speed conversion.

Roll cage when I next have DirtyDiesel in my pocket

[LandyManLuke]

Just make sure you use the 0v -> 12v battery, I bet you'd have fun if you used the 12 -> 24v battery!

[Soren Frimodt]

Thanks.

Well TBH I don't think I would go through all that trouble on the M180 engine. It really isn't one of Mercedes' best achievements. If your going to be running this engine be prepared to change headgaskets every now and then. I know I have an M180 aswell and although it was the easiest way for me to gain extra hp, if I had known back then what i do now I wouldn't have fitted it. I have no less than three more or less complete 2,2L M180 engines with blown headgaskets laying around.

But ofcourse if it's something you really want to do then I wont stop you, I just think that maybe your time/money could be better spent. If you have seen my thread in the Members Vehicles Forum you will have seen that I have been working on a Turbo'ed M180. But I have dropped this project completely 'cause I have lost all trust in the M180.

[steve b]

We need pictures Rog

Always nice to see a 404 being used. What tyres are you running?

btw if you need bits I have a few 404's in bits and 3 complete , not running though

cheers

Steveb

[istruggle2gate11]

Thanks.

Well TBH I don't think I would go through all that trouble on the M180 engine. It really isn't one of Mercedes' best achievements. If your going to be running this engine be prepared to change headgaskets every now and then. I know I have an M180 aswell and although it was the easiest way for me to gain extra hp, if I had known back then what i do now I wouldn't have fitted it. I have no less than three more or less complete 2,2L M180 engines with blown headgaskets laying around.

But ofcourse if it's something you really want to do then I wont stop you, I just think that maybe your time/money could be better spent. If you have seen my thread in the Members Vehicles Forum you will have seen that I have been working on a Turbo'ed M180. But I have dropped this project completely 'cause I have lost all trust in the M180.

Hmmm, I wont question your experiance at all, rather absorb it!

So, as I see it, my only real (easy) option is the M130?

(I do not want to cut and shut an engine in, trying to keep somewhere near original)

[FridgeFreezer]

There is the potential to let the smoke out if a battery goes faulty or someone drops a b*ll*ck with the wiring. The V3 MS ECU itself is pretty well idiot proofed. Just make sure you put fuses in (and not just 30A everywhere ) and do the wiring nicely and I won't say "I told you so" much if you set fire to it

[istruggle2gate11]

We need pictures Rog

Always nice to see a 404 being used. What tyres are you running?

btw if you need bits I have a few 404's in bits and 3 complete , not running though

cheers

Steveb

Your Wish is my command!....

The tyres are standard 10.5r20 continental mpt's badly worn, but until the beer tokens creep back up, out with the tyre cutter!!! - Going for the simex jungle treker pattern (who says you cant polish a turd?)Thats the knackered spare BTW, hence playing with patterns.

I shall bear you in mind for the spares!

Fridge, are you also reffering to just going on the one battery take off route? With just some (sensible) fusing.

[Soren Frimodt]

I like your thinking mate! Look what i've done to the same tyrepattern as yours! This is defo the way to do it, I've won competitions one these tyres on my landy and no matter what off the shelf tyre i put under my landy, they are simply outperformed by my old MPT's (offroad only). Mine are only 900x16" though. (notice the sidegrooves)

As to M130 I really don't know, they are terribly hard to come by and every time one has popped up on ebay.de I haven't had the money. I have no experience with the M130 although I know its construction is very similar to the M180.

It has way better numbers though and I would love to get one for my Mog.

So if you want to keep it rather standard looking I would say go for an M130. It's easy to drop in just make sure you get one with carbs not injection, though they perform even better they are simply to big to stuff in there.

[istruggle2gate11]

I like your thinking mate! Look what i've done to the same tyrepattern as yours! This is defo the way to do it, I've won competitions one these tyres on my landy and no matter what off the shelf tyre i put under my landy, they are simply outperformed by my old MPT's (offroad only). Mine are only 900x16" though. (notice the sidegrooves)

As to M130 I really don't know, they are terribly hard to come by and every time one has popped up on ebay.de I haven't had the money. I have no experience with the M130 although I know its construction is very similar to the M180.

It has way better numbers though and I would love to get one for my Mog.

So if you want to keep it rather standard looking I would say go for an M130. It's easy to drop in just make sure you get one with carbs not injection, though they perform even better they are simply to big to stuff in there.

Nice Tyres!

Soren, re the head gasket, did you keep up with the maintenance schedule of torque tightening the head bolts regularly? I mention this because both the user manual and workshop manual make a big play on this, almost too much!

[dirtydiesel]

Rog, Why not just rewire it to 12v? get the starter motor rewound and fit a 12v alternator and your away.

Or if you found and m130 out a car it would probably allready have a 12v starter.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Hello all,

Made the transistion from LR to Unimog and life is good!......

However the mog is carb and dizzy, I have tasted the blood of MS+Edis and I want more......

The mechanics of going injected are no issue - injection components from a beemer 6 pot, fuel pump from a RR, Edis from a cossy Granny etc...

Its the electrickery thats my "grey area"....

The mog is 24volts and I wish to keep it that way for a number of reasons, I need 12volts for the MS, Edis and Fuel Pump.

I can buy a 24v to 12v dropper that can give out 20amps for circa £25. Is 20amps enough?

Guessing:

Megasquirt = 2amps max

Fuel Pump = 8 amps (rangie was a 10amp fuse)

Edis = 2 amps (total guess)

Coil Packs = ?amps - I have no idea - do you?

Ideas/guidance gratefully received

(a certain grumpy git might dragh out his soldering iron and scribe some calcs onto the screen?)

Yeah thats all OK ........... so whats the probelem ? ............. give me a call, you've got the mobile number.

[FridgeFreezer]

Or if you found and m130 out a car it would probably allready have a 12v starter.

And alternator.

Can't imagine there's a lot on a Mog that is hard to change - heater blower, wiper motor, fuel gauge, temo gauge, ??? apart from that it's just buying a set of 12v lighbulbs.

[Soren Frimodt]

And alternator.

Can't imagine there's a lot on a Mog that is hard to change - heater blower, wiper motor, fuel gauge, temo gauge, ??? apart from that it's just buying a set of 12v lighbulbs.

I actually think that is quite a lot to have to get rewound isn't it? It can't be cheap. And you will not be able to use the starter off of a 12V Merc car. They don't fit, been there done that.

There is actually a lot of sense in keeping it 24V, It really works and the only time you have problems with it is when you need to change a bulb, they are not just around the corner.

But regarding 24V-12V converter, When I got my Mog it had just such a beast for the ignition as there was fitted the ignition off of a saloon car. It had no problem coping with the draw of the ignition coil, but ofcourse you have more than just that in this case.

[Soren Frimodt]

Nice Tyres!

Soren, re the head gasket, did you keep up with the maintenance schedule of torque tightening the head bolts regularly? I mention this because both the user manual and workshop manual make a big play on this, almost too much!

Well I've only driven one of the engines myself that has done this. But all three are below 30K km. So if you have to re-torque your cylinderhead more often than that I would say serious engineering fault!

[FridgeFreezer]

I actually think that is quite a lot to have to get rewound isn't it?

I wasn't suggesting reqinding them - just replacing with 12v versions from another vehicle. OK it's not a 5-minute job but you would end up with more reliable modern bits as technology has moved on a bit since that mog was made. Swings and roundabouts really.

[Soren Frimodt]

I wasn't suggesting reqinding them - just replacing with 12v versions from another vehicle. OK it's not a 5-minute job but you would end up with more reliable modern bits as technology has moved on a bit since that mog was made. Swings and roundabouts really.

Hehe your quite right FF, but I really don't think you would be able to find any of these things that would fit the vehicle. I haven't seen any cars having either wipers nor a heater blower that looked similar. The Mogs are quite odd actually

[istruggle2gate11]

Hehe your quite right FF, but I really don't think you would be able to find any of these things that would fit the vehicle. I haven't seen any cars having either wipers nor a heater blower that looked similar. The Mogs are quite odd actually

BBC - Will call you in the morning

Im liking the 24v - namely for the winching and starter motor, ok the 600w generator is is only about 45amps but it is pressurised waterproof as standard, and as hard as I find it to believe, second hand mog spares are quite easy to get!

Read a post on difflock where a guy converted to 12v, managed to get his starter re-wound (not cheap though). He left the heater and wipers in 24v and reported they were slower but still operational.