What do you make of this?

[jeremy996]

Bloke works as a civviy for MOD.in the stores.

SNIP

Anyone know of this happening to anyone else? what happened? will they take the whole truck or just the parts they think he pinched?

He is in real trouble, theft in public office tends to be in the higher tarriff if it gets to Court. As a civvy, assuming it's a first offence he will be looking at a large fine and potentially, although unlikely, a short trip to prison. If the prosecution ask for restitution, which is likely, he may find himself having to prove that bits were his rather than the other way round and forking out more money for the appropriated pieces. As he is likely to have a major cash flow problem, a forced sale of the vehicle is likely.

As a soldier, he'd be looking at a Court Martial, time in Colly, (the glasshouse in Colchester) and a dishonourable discharge.

His employment and the potential criminal case are two separate things, he is likely to be out of a job before his case came to a trial, as the employer would only need to prove on the basis of "balance of probabilities" that he'd been a naughty boy. (HR in different employers can vary in effectiveness and dispatch; on my watch, he'd be suspended for an investigation and if proved, out on his ear within a week. We would not prosecute as the cost and disruption is disproportionate to the potential gain).

This sort of theft from employers is very common, I've investigated and binned housing store managers, financial advisers, telephone and computer engineers, office administrators and the like - all reconed that it was either "perks" or a victimless crime. I have little sympathy.

[reads90]

Cant name names... but heres a situation for you to ponder/discuss.

Bloke works as a civviy for MOD.in the stores.

Bloke is building his own landie from scratch.( get the picture?)

Now we have all at some time "borrowed" bits from work, and this bloke was no exception,

However, someone noticed that he was ordering bits that werent normally in the stores and so... dobbed him in.

I must add that we are not talking gearboxes or engines etc, just little bits (right or wrong )

Dobber( i use the word dobber for no other reason then for the story telling, i have no axe to grind to either party) went to the BIG boss, and the MP's and CID are now involved.

Anyone know of this happening to anyone else? what happened? will they take the whole truck or just the parts they think he pinched?

Mandy

I would personall be worried about what they are going to do to him/Her and not the truck. After all you can't use it if you are locked up, can you

[freeagent]

not sure what might happen although similar scenario:

MOD employed VM working in my workshop

Stores section wrote off a 12v drill and placed in a skip (they should have backloaded it or made it beyond repair and then back loaded it)

VM leaves work, sees drill in skip, takes home and fixes it.

someone finds out, hes suspended (6mths in the end) investigation is conducted, they searched his house/car/everything he had for further MOD bits, found nothing, he was reinstated after a panel agreeded that he had taken it from a skip not knowing it was MOD property even though it was in a skip.

If panel had not believed him he would have lost his job.

pretty similar to a situation involving the MOD contractors i used to work for...

some of the guys were clearing a site prior to it being closed down, one of them spotted a broom in a skip and took it out to sweep up, when he'd fininished he threw the broom into the back of their truck and drove off.

an hour later our Boss got a phone call.... "If the broom was returned within the hour, they would turn a blind eye and not prosecute"

......true story.

i reckon your friend should start looking for a new job.... and he was pretty silly ordering non-stock items in... but i guess we all think we are invincible at work.... and think we wont get caught, and can do what we like... i'm no angel, but wouldn't risk a job over a few parts that cost less than a days wages....

[isuzurover]

This has happened in OZ in the past, and at best the guy was fired and had to give everything back or pay for what he took, at worst he went to jail, and still had to give everything back or pay for what he took. I don't see how they can take bits of the vehicle that he can prove came from elsewhere, unless there is a ruling that they are entitled to compensation.

There was a case in oz that made the news - An army storeman was building a Black Hawk helecopter in his back yard - entirely using parts he had taken from work. When the powers that be found out, it was almost complete, save for the rotor and a few other bits!!! (he went to jail).

[GBMUD]

So this guy has not admitted anything? I say that if he keeps his mouth shut and can persuade his colleagues to act dumb then, unless the parts are marked/numbered then it will be difficult for anyone to prove that he is "guilty beyond reasonable doubt". It does not sound like there is much firm evidence here. Not to condone what he has done mind.

Chris

[jeremy996]

So this guy has not admitted anything? I say that if he keeps his mouth shut and can persuade his colleagues to act dumb then, unless the parts are marked/numbered then it will be difficult for anyone to prove that he is "guilty beyond reasonable doubt". It does not sound like there is much firm evidence here. Not to condone what he has done mind.

Chris

That may work as far as the criminal law is concerned, but his employment is a civil matter and works to a lessor test. Essentially, if he ordered spares that were not longer in store and could not be seen on repaired works equipment, (most MOD equipment repairs are well documented), but similar were on his shiny Land Rover and he did not have third party invoices, the civil level of proof may well have been met!..........he's lost his job and his reference isn't worth having either!

[GBMUD]

That may work as far as the criminal law is concerned, but his employment is a civil matter and works to a lessor test. Essentially, if he ordered spares that were not longer in store and could not be seen on repaired works equipment, (most MOD equipment repairs are well documented), but similar were on his shiny Land Rover and he did not have third party invoices, the civil level of proof may well have been met!..........he's lost his job and his reference isn't worth having either!

That may be so, I am not expert. There is always the chance that sacking him without proof could constitute unfair dismissal and I know that employers are very frightened of that. If he does get busted then it sounds like he has it coming to him anyway. If you can't do the time...

Chris

[Daan]

There was a case in oz that made the news - An army storeman was building a Black Hawk helecopter in his back yard - entirely using parts he had taken from work. When the powers that be found out, it was almost complete, save for the rotor and a few other bits!!! (he went to jail).

Just claim ignorance!

Ok, to be serious, we all take the occasional nut and bolt, but I while I was building my landy, I needed an a wfull lot of nuts, bolts hoses steel plate, tube, box section you name it. My employer has all this in the stores and gets much better deals than I ever will. I went to the manager of the materials departement and explained the situation. The solution was that I got a jobnumber: Whenever I asked for bits for personal use, I just got them under my jobnumber. At the end of the month I got my wageslip with an extra sheet which stated everything I took, which was deducted from my salary (before tax!). The situation was perfect for everyone involved, especially when your employer knows stuff goes missing (which he does!), he will be to happy to help you this way.

Also, If there is something you need, which your employer has lying in the way, dont be afraid to ask. I got an unused defender 90 chassis this way, which I used to build up my landy. If you ask, you are honest and I found this will be rewarded, potentially with the bits you need. Also, taking bits out of the skip has never been a problem, whereever I worked, short of workmates calling me homeless beggers...