300tdi rear oil seal

[cackshifter]

My 97 300tdi 110 has just developed a massive oil leak from the bellhousing. It doesn't drop any much, then when it's started and moved, about a wineglass full comes out the wading plug hole. The clutch & rear oil seal were changed earlier this year, but it was OK for a bit after that. I'm wondering if it is clutch usage that causes it in which case, I'm wondering if the crank end float is too much. Anyone had that kind of problem? The engine has has done 99k. Can oil get into the bell housing any other way? I know it is engine oil.

Regards

Nigel

[Les Henson]

Only the crank seal in most cases but I believe if the gasket/sealant between the flywheel housing and engine block is nice and tight, then it's possible that leaking T-seals will put oil inside as well. I've never known this to happen, but I guess it's possible. Gearbox off or engine out to do either anyway I'm afraid.

Crank end-float would have to be seriously excessive in order for it to perhaps cause rear seal failure.

Have you checked for oil leak at the rear of the rocker cover? a leak there can end-up inthe the top of the bellhousing and then out the bottom.

The symptoms you describe do sound like crank seal though.

Les.

[western]

only access to fly wheel housing/crank rear seal is by removing the gearbox/clutch/flywheel.

tdi crank endfloat is set with shims at the crank centre main bearing

Edited October 16, 2010 by western

[Les Henson]

only access to bell housing is by removing the gearbox/clutch/flywheel

Do you want to edit that reply Ralph ?

Bell housing is on the gearbox - flywheel housing is behind the flywheel/clutch.

Les

[cackshifter]

Thanks for replies; it sounds like gearbox out for starters, (then I can get access to the bell shaped thing on the end of it). With the gearbox out & sump off can you drop off the back main cap & do the T seals, whilst the patient is on the table? I wondered about about the rocker gasket, but it's quite new, and looks clean at the back etc, whereas I saw it running out of the car as my wife backed it down the drive; I made her stop (and apply the handbrake) and dived under to see the last of it falling out of the hole. It has to be the rear seal I think because of the volume of it; though there may well be other leaks, that's the big one.

Nigel

[Les Henson]

Engine out to do the T-seals I'm afraid. They are covered by the rear main bearing cap and that has to be removed. Flywheel housing off, sump off, rear bearing cap off.

Les

[cackshifter]

I did wonder whether the flywheel housing had to come off. How easy is it to get the engine out, there seems to be quite a bit of room round it? OTOH it looks a right heavy lump. I guess if you take off the radiator & front grille etc, it's not too bad, as the lift must be more or less straight back (ie forwards!) with a hint of lift to clear the chassis?

Nigel

[Mo Murphy]

Getting it out is the easy bit Nigel, putting the bloody thing back in onto the gearbox is another matter

Mo

[Les Henson]

If it's the crank seal, then clutch off, flywheel off (you will by this time know if the leak is the crank seal or the T-seals). With the flywheel off, you'll be able to access the retaining bolts for the flywheel housing, which can then be removed if necessary to proceed to the T-seals. Unbolt and remove the rear crank seal housing, drain the sump and then remove the sump pan and then you can get at the two rear main bearing cap bolts.

Les.

[cackshifter]

Simples. I wonder how many Defenders you need for 100% availability of one? I think this is something I'm going to have find someone else to do.Before doing this, just to disprove my thrusts thought, if I push the crank as far back as it will go (wooden lever against the crank pulley) then put a DTI on the pulley from a mag base somewhere on the block and get someone to put their foot on the clutch, I should have some idea of end float?

Nigel

[Les Henson]

I think that should work, although if you can see the crank move without a DTl then it's excessive.

Crankshaft end float should be within 0.05 to 0.15mm.

Les.

[cackshifter]

That's 2 to 6 thou in English. I have tried aforesaid manouevre, and it's not easy to find anywhere to put your DTI, but I'm pretty sure the float was more than that. I could feel it move, I think I could see it. I ended up putting the DTI mount on the chassis and assuming the engine itself didn't move - I know thats not reliable. It's very hard to find a surface to mount one on the engine, and I think I'll try again, but meanwhile find someplace willing to perform an engine-ectomy, as our street looks like BP has been drilling in it.

Nigel

[Briarston]

I know you are convinced that it's engine oil, but you could clutch at a

passing straw, and check your clutch master cyl. reservoir.

Clutch fluid which has dribbled round a flywheel housing can be pretty black

and gooey looking.

You say it drips "after starting and moving", in which case you will have operated

the clutch a time or two. Also, wouldn't a rear main seal leak all the time the

engine is running?

It'll only take seconds to check the fluid level, you MAY be lucky and save a

lot of work.

[Les Henson]

Replacing the crank thrust washers is quite easy on the 300TDi engine (no stoopid ladder frame in the way )

Sump off, centre main bearing cap off, rotate the thrust washers round and replace (just like that )

Crank rear seal is then just gearbox off (if you prefer that method), clutch (consider replacing it - along with the fork and spigot bearing), flywheel off, then remove and replace the rear main bearing oil seal carrier, and reassemble.

Something to do on a lazy Sunday

And use a genuine crank seal - most others are Cadburys Dairy Milk

Les.

[cackshifter]

I know you are convinced that it's engine oil, but you could clutch at a

passing straw, and check your clutch master cyl. reservoir.

Clutch fluid which has dribbled round a flywheel housing can be pretty black

and gooey looking.

You say it drips "after starting and moving", in which case you will have operated

the clutch a time or two. Also, wouldn't a rear main seal leak all the time the

engine is running?

It'll only take seconds to check the fluid level, you MAY be lucky and save a

lot of work.

Nice thought and thanks, but unless the fluid fairy is topping up the reservoir, I'm afraid that is not happening. I had a look and miracle of miracles, the fluid level looked fine. It is definitely engine oil, as it's black and quite a lot keeps going missing from the end of the dipstick.

Regards

Nigel

[cackshifter]

Replacing the crank thrust washers is quite easy on the 300TDi engine (no stoopid ladder frame in the way )

Sump off, centre main bearing cap off, rotate the thrust washers round and replace (just like that )

Crank rear seal is then just gearbox off (if you prefer that method), clutch (consider replacing it - along with the fork and spigot bearing), flywheel off, then remove and replace the rear main bearing oil seal carrier, and reassemble.

Something to do on a lazy Sunday

And use a genuine crank seal - most others are Cadburys Dairy Milk

Les.

Thanks for the thrusts info. Clutch was replaced about 2k miles ago, so I think the fork'll be OK, did your weld mod to a new one before fitting last time & it hasn't been in 5 mins. New clutch though I think.

Regards

Nigel