Anderzander Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I am going to fit a near Type R spec MileMarker H12 to my td5 90 - I'd like to ask a few questions (to help me) and write the installation up (to hopefully help anyone else who wants to do it!). This is the winch, plasma rope and bumper fitted: Which lead me to my first question - this H12 was running via a ZF74 and I notice that its mounted on the bumper in the reverse direction to all the other H12 installations I've seen or can find pictures of. i.e with the motor on the left as you look at the front of the vehicle. I presume therefore that the motor can run just as efficiently in either direction ? can anyone confirm this for me please? It certainly suits the current position of the inlet and outlet on the motor to be fitted as it is - with the motor as it is. I'll be using a PTO pump from an ex utilities H14W set up. The PTO is already installed: The next main job in the installation is to fit the hydraulic tank - the one I'm using is again from an H14W set up: This fits under the drivers seat, which on the td5 means moving the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 I've moved the ECU to the bulkhead behind the centre seat. In the picture of the PTO above you can see the trunking / loom that travels across the bottom edge of the access hatch to ECU under the seat. These can be re-routed to the bulkhead with only a handful of wires (low range switches etc) to be extended and moved about. I made a template to the size of holes for the grommets to fit: Drilled a 12mm pilot hole and used a Q-Max cutter: Which makes a beautiful hole : This is the ECU fitted and the relays and fuse box routed in (I've yet to mount the relays and fuses though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 That's as far as I am up-to at the moment. Other parts yet to fit include: An overcentre valve: which will require me to pick up some alternative fittings for - hopefully on Saturday. The solenoid block: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 The hydraulic motor does run in both directions - the winch has forward and reverse (or rope in/out), and as long as the overcentre valve ( brake function) and hoses are connected to the correct motor ports that is all you have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Good pics & tutorial Stephen, especially the ECU relocation, this will no doubt be useful to others wishing to do the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Can I please ask a quick question?, Does using the hydraulic PTO set up from an H14 make the winch anymore powerful at all?-I've thought about using a similar set up on my milemarker but did'nt know where to start, Thank you for putting this write up- up, It gives me a few ideas I've also thought about using an oil cooler the same as the ones you see for engine oil for cooling the hydraulic oil down, and would like to ask if someone could confirm wether or not it'd do the job or would the pressure running through the cooler be too much or not cool it sufficiently? my apologies for hijacking this thread John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 John have a look on here for Hybrid from Hell's writeup on his rear MM, this was powered by a PTO pump and is a beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Bogmonster, Thank you John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Hi John Hybrid from Hell has written some good material on Hydraulic set ups. Essentially there are two components - flow and pressure and as a useful (but not entirely correct) summary you can say that increased pressure increases your speed and increased flow increases the power. A PTO pump can produce substantially more flow and pressure than a power steering system - so it has scope to be both faster and more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Can I please ask a quick question?, Does using the hydraulic PTO set up from an H14 make the winch anymore powerful at all?-I've thought about using a similar set up on my milemarker but did'nt know where to start, Thank you for putting this write up- up, It gives me a few ideas I've also thought about using an oil cooler the same as the ones you see for engine oil for cooling the hydraulic oil down, and would like to ask if someone could confirm wether or not it'd do the job or would the pressure running through the cooler be too much or not cool it sufficiently? my apologies for hijacking this thread John Hi John Hybrid from Hell has written some good material on Hydraulic set ups. Essentially there are two components - flow and pressure and as a useful (but not entirely correct) summary you can say that increased pressure increases your speed and increased flow increases the power. A PTO pump can produce substantially more flow and pressure than a power steering system - so it has scope to be both faster and more powerful. Unfortunately Aderzander got 2 parts of his reply a little mixed up. Power is force x velocity, in the case of a winch it is rope pull x rope speed. For a particular displacement hydraulic motor: 1) the rope pull is a function of the system pressure, and 2) rope speed is a function of fluid flow rate. Both the motor and pump will have a rated pressure, i.e. the recommended maximum operating pressure, which is usually determined by the design and internal forces on bearings and the like. The system should have a relief valve that is set to protect the system, which includes all parts of the winch, from overload. However the operating pressure will be determined by whatever load is on the rope - if the load is low the pressure will be low. If the load is too high and the required pressure exceeds the setting of the relief valve then the relief valve will open and divert the flow back to tank instead of to the winch motor and the winch wont pull any rope in against that load. Simply changing the pump to another one from a larger winch, is not necessarily the correct solution to achieve higher rope pull or speed. It is necessary to look at the entire system. Is the flow capacity of the lines, control valves, motor, and filter suitable for the flow from a larger displacement pump? Do they have suitable pressure ratings to allow higher system pressure? Oil coolers should not be installed in the pressure lines. They should be in the return line to the reservoir, which operates at low pressure - pressure in return lines is back pressure due to frictional losses in the line and fittings and static head. Heat in the fluid has several sources. E.g. if the lines, etc. are too small for the flow rate, the high fluid velocity will produce more heat, or when the pressure relief opens to control the system pressure a lot of heat can be created. The capacity and shape/construction of the fluid reservoir are important when considering flow and heat in the fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Thanks for the excellent explanation John - apologies if I misled anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Switches are done !! :-) The new switches arrived from croytec - and this time they are the right way up. - It'll make using them easier from the drivers seat and mean I'm not looking down the top of it too. I had already marked out the necessary cut outs on the panel, so tonight I masked them out and then took the dremel to it. I basically just cut a slot on each of the four sides of each cut out, then slid in a hacksaw blade and cut the corners to release the cut out. Then it was just cleaning it up with a file and a sharp knife. I'm very pleased with how they've gone in - looks neat and tidy and factory looking. I've put the on / off next to the wash wipe switch - as when the pto is engaged I might have it in 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear; so having both off / momentary on switches for in and out on the left means they are easy to switch. Still a fair bit to go to finish fitting the winch, but its another step closer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=1487 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=16498 Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Very short update is that I cut the passenger floor out to mount the hydraulic tank (pictured above) ...... and it doesn't fit. I hadn't thought of it before - but the tank came from an ex utilities 110, on which the trailing arm bracket will be further back. On a 90 the trailing arm bracket stops the tank fitting. So - I took a trip down to (john) Saley's who kindly spent time with me making suggestions and giving advice. He's going to make a tank up for me that will sit higher into the seat box (using the space the fittings would have taken) but that will protrude less from underneath. The fittings will be on the underside against the chassis rail and I'll use an external filter. I'll post up pics of it when its done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 The tank is done! Thank you John :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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