Mean Green Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I am in the process of fitting LED NAS lights to the rear of my Defender. Obviously I am going to have the problem of fast flashing indicators. So as far as I can see I have 2 options ... 1. swap the flasher relay for an electronic type or 2. put ballast resistors in the circuit. So which is best? Where is the best place to get relays? (and what spec - front indicators are currently standard filament type) And what type of Ballast resistor would it be? thank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I fitted the electronic relay, which I got from Ebay. Works a treat with bulbs or LEDs so you can switch from one to the other should you need to if one gets broken. The only problem is that it does not detect the trailer is plugged in when you have LEDs fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 IIRC you can get flasher units that work only with led bulbs try ultraleds.co.uk LED REPLACEMENT FLASHER UNITS £14.99 Complete Plug and Play Led Flasher Units for all 4 main Indicator bulbs plus side light led bulbs Simple to install - just locate your fuseboard and remove your old Unit and replace it with this new one No need to use Hot Load resistors which have no power savings on using Leds apart from stopping them flashing fast Made in the EU and designed and supplied to BMW - will work with 90% of UK cars. (not just BMW) For a full data sheet please request one from us at sales@ultraleds.co.uk Please note this unit will fail and void your warranty if you use with less than 4 Led Bulbs (not including side Repeater bulbs) you can however in an emergency replace one of the led bulbs with a standard bulb should one of the Led bulbs fail (but only one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I've got full LED NAS lights on my 90 and use an electronic flasher relat from MOBILECENTRE, as you say it doesn't detect a trailer but it will support up to 60W (an LED indicator light is about 1.7W) and is a whole lot easier than installing ballast resistors although the latter will retain the trailer warning light function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 I've been looking in to this in the last couple of days as well. So far as I can tell, if you want to have a properly functioning trailer tell-tale with LED indicator lamps, you have to fit ballast resistors or be prepared to fit a second fasher relay for the trailer. Flasher relays come with one of two possible options for the trailer and normal indicator tell-tales. These are designated 'C' and 'C2'. C is the connection for a normal indicator tell-tale, C2 is the tell-tale connection for the trailer circuit. I have yet to find a relay which has both C and C2 terminals, but even if I could, the standard Defender relay (at least as far as the TD5) is a four pole unit with a C2 terminal and no C terminal. The indicator tell-tale in the standard configuration relies on the fact that the indicator lamp on the dash board is sufficiently low wattage that it can be earthed via the opposite side indicator lamps, so it is simply connected between the two circuits (left and right). If you fit all your indicators (including the wing repeaters) with LED lights then the indicator tell-tale can no longer get an earth and it will stop working. The instructions provided by RiverRunners and Mobilecentre conveniently gloss over the fact that their relay has a C terminal rather than a C2 terminal. If you use one of their relays installed the way they recommend then you will find that the trailer tell-tale flashes whether or not there is a trailer connected. The normal indicator tell-tale will continue to flash only if you leave a filament bulb in one of the indicator holders on each side (in the wing repeaters is enough) unless you fit a ballast resistor. I want a working trailer tell-tale (in fact I think it is a legal requirement when towing although I can't say I have ever heard of anyone being done for not having one) so I've just bought two 3.3 ohm 50w metal clad resistors and intend to install them up in the front wings behind the headlights where I will mount them on a small piece of plate held by one of the bolts which holds the wing sections together. I will then put the original flasher relay back in place behind the fusebox. Anyone want to buy a Mobilecentre flasher relay? Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 Oh yes, I forgot to mention. The indicator light on the dash will make all four indicators flash at the same time if you go the route I did. All I did was disconnect it, earth one terminal and connect the original two wires to the other terminal via a couple of diodes. Now works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 Aarrgghhh!!! I am ready to pull out what little hair I have left!! I can't get leds to stop rapid flash even with ballast resistor. I got 30 ohm resistor from my local motor factors and have tried every permutation of fitting that I can think of. I found a wiring diagram which shows the resistor in parallel with led buy still flashes fast! Anyone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Aarrgghhh!!! I am ready to pull out what little hair I have left!! I can't get leds to stop rapid flash even with ballast resistor. I got 30 ohm resistor from my local motor factors and have tried every permutation of fitting that I can think of. I found a wiring diagram which shows the resistor in parallel with led buy still flashes fast! Anyone help? You need 3 ohm, not 30! - like this . Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 Oops... typo the resistors are 3 ohms. And are exactly the ones in your post from RS. Serves me right posting from my phone with predictive text. So anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 OK, in which case something else is not right here. Although it's probably worth checking that the resistors really are the right thing - what do they say on the top? I did this mod last week and it worked perfectly so lets see if we can help you. The 3R3 resistor should be connected in parallel with one of the indicators on each side of the vehicle (so you need two of them). Have you changed all of the indicator lamps, and if so what to? Including the wing repeaters? Have you changed the flasher relay, and if so to what? More info needed! Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 Here are the ballast resistor modules I made: and here is one installed on the joint in the front wing panels: Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 OK, in which case something else is not right here. Although it's probably worth checking that the resistors really are the right thing - what do they say on the top? I did this mod last week and it worked perfectly so lets see if we can help you. The 3R3 resistor should be connected in parallel with one of the indicators on each side of the vehicle (so you need two of them). Have you changed all of the indicator lamps, and if so what to? Including the wing repeaters? Have you changed the flasher relay, and if so to what? More info needed! Nick. Nick Thanks for the help... it is really getting on my nerves at the moment.... it should only have been a 10 min job and it has been off the road for almost 3 weeks! The resistors are exactly the same as the ones in the the RS link - with the same info as on the picture. I have only changed the rear lamps to LED style NAS lamps (can't recall the make and it is too wet to go out to the garage to check). The front and wing repeaters are still "normal" bulbs and the flasher relay has not been changed either. I have checked the resistance with a meter and get 3.3 on both resistors and have had the resistor in parallel. So what else could be wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 The 3R3 resistor is only the right value if you replace both the front and rear indicators with LED's. If you only replace one of the bulbs then you will need a resistor of about 6 ohms. Having said this, the arrangement you now have should be electrically the same as having a trailer connected so far as the flasher relay is concerned, so I would expect the effect to be that the lights will flash at the correct rate but the trailer tell-tale will also operate. Are you sure that the LED lamps you have bought do not already contain ballast resistors? What colours are the wires you have connected the ballast resistor between, and did you check that the multi-way bullet receptacle was not corroded? I had to replace the receptacles on my vehicle because the lights would not flash at all when I first fitted them due to corrosion in the connections. I have filled the replacements with silicone grease to hopefully stop this happening again. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 As far as I am aware they do not have ballast resistors fitted- They fast flash when directly plugged into the loom. The multi-plug for the earth is in good condition and I have the +ve into the green & red. Interestingly it flashes at the correct rate on hazard. I am beginning to think that it would be much easier to just change the flasher relay for an electronic one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 2, 2010 Author Share Posted November 2, 2010 What colours are the wires you have connected the ballast resistor between I put the resistor between white and blue wires - which are the + ve and -ve tails on the lamps. They are connected to the main loom +ve to green red and -ve to Black multi plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 As far as I am aware they do not have ballast resistors fitted- They fast flash when directly plugged into the loom. I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Can you explain a bit further? The multi-plug for the earth is in good condition and I have the +ve into the green & red. It was the +ve which was the problem on mine, but I'll take it that you have checked that as well. Interestingly it flashes at the correct rate on hazard. That's a red herring - the hazards work in a different way. I am beginning to think that it would be much easier to just change the flasher relay for an electronic one! I'll happily send you the spare flasher module I have got in return for a forum donation, but before you go there, try putting the old lamp unit back and see if the problems goes away. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 I put the resistor between white and blue wires - which are the + ve and -ve tails on the lamps. They are connected to the main loom +ve to green red and -ve to Black multi plug. White and blue are the headlamp colours, but green/red and black (for N/S) and green/white and black (for O/S) is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 Nick Thanks for your patience- I did not really make myself clear - so I will try again from the beginning .... Opening the box i find a sealed 95mm LED unit with 2 wire tails- 1 blue +ve and white -ve. I removed the original lamp and directly replaced it with the LED unit with blue into Green & Red and White into Black for earth. Result was fast flash (as expected) - I assume this suggest there is no ballast resistor fitted to LED. So I bought 2x 3.0 resistors as in your link above. I fitted the resistor in parallel - ie I soldered on a "Y" tail to both ends of the resistor with one branch into the original loom and the other into the lamp. (I will get a photograph tonight which will show it much clearer) and the result was still fast flashing. The front and side repeater bulbs are standard, as is the flasher relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I fitted the resistor in parallel - ie I soldered on a "Y" tail to both ends of the resistor with one branch into the original loom and the other into the lamp. (I will get a photograph tonight which will show it much clearer) and the result was still fast flashing. That description leads me to think that in fact you have the resistor in series with the lED lamp, not in parallel. I'll do you a sketch of what it should look like and post it shortly. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Here's a diagram: I realise the blue and white wires are the wrong way round in the sketch actually, having re-read your post since drawing it. Also, this diagram is for the front indicator, but hopefully you will see how the principle works for the back too. As already mentioned, if you use a 3 ohm resistor when you are only replacing one of the filament lamps with an LED then I would expect the trailer light tell tale to flash as well as the normal tell-tale. Using a resistor of about 6 ohm (like this) should make the tell-tales work properly but you would then need another resistor the same, also wired in parallel, if you change the front indicator to LED as well. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Have just re-read your post. Wires colours on my diagram are in fact correct, but your description may be parallel connection after all. Any chance of some pictures? Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 Will get some pics shortly .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 This is the circuit that I have created.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 That should work, but that resistor is not the one linked to in my previous posts (it's physically too small to be rated at 50W). I can't read what it says on the top because the focus is not good enough. Can you either get a fully in-focus picture, or type out EXACTLY what the letters on the top of the resistor say, please? Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Green Posted November 4, 2010 Author Share Posted November 4, 2010 The resistor is .... Nick I think I will take you up on your offer of the flasher unit too... I will PM you my address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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