unbelivable blue smoke ,help

[del]

Ive got an unbelivable amount of blue smoke pumpimg out of my 200tdi on start up, thats burning oil isnit? ,started it tonight and it was like a start of a jack the ripper film proper 1850s london smog , takes about 10 mins to clear ,any sugestions ,taking it back to the mechanic tomorrow as engine has just been fitted

[Andy]

Turbo seals gone so it's filling up & getting burnt when it starts?

[del]

its also missfiring for about the same amount of time then sluggish when first driving, its a real tiddle off just waited 2 months for the engine to be fitted its a 200 def lump and a 200 disco head so far its cost me £2000 and its pouring out 10x the amount of smoke compared to the old td

[western]

back to the garage, let them sort it.

[berti1554]

Sounds like injection is out of timing or you got an issue with the injection nozzels. But as western alreadey said, back to the garage...

[tweetyduck]

If i may hijack this thread a little.

I have slight blue smoke at start up. Clears in less than a mile. Might actually be 1/2 a mile anyhow before i reach the end of the road. I only notice it now i've sorted out the over fueling. Its doesn't get any worse and it clears completely.

Is this absolutely normal? After all its a pretty old car.

[cackshifter]

Neill,

IIRC you have a 300tdi; if so on mine some (I think 3) of the valve stem oil seals had lifted off the top of the guide and were 'hovering' under the valve caps. That produced a smoky start which cleared quite quickly. If yours is the same shouldn't be too hard to replace if you have a trained cockroach or maybe a smallish screwdriver, not too fat not too springy. Just be careful not to cut them. Otherwise you're looking at wear of something or other - turbo seals, valve stems, or rings, or just maybe a breather problem.

Nigel

[del]

went to the garage today and was reasurred it is a dodgy injector so apperantly hes getting some next week

[tweetyduck]

Neill,

IIRC you have a 300tdi; if so on mine some (I think 3) of the valve stem oil seals had lifted off the top of the guide and were 'hovering' under the valve caps. That produced a smoky start which cleared quite quickly. If yours is the same shouldn't be too hard to replace if you have a trained cockroach or maybe a smallish screwdriver, not too fat not too springy. Just be careful not to cut them. Otherwise you're looking at wear of something or other - turbo seals, valve stems, or rings, or just maybe a breather problem.

Nigel

Thanks. I only vaguely know what you mean but i've looked on rave and googled it so i think i can manage that. Its about time i had the entire head off anyhow. I think i'll give it a go. I need to learn how to do it so i'll take a look when i do.

[cackshifter]

You don't need to take the head off to do that, just the rocker cover. Then look at the top of the 8 valve guides. Each one should have a seal on the top of it, with the valve stem protruding up through. The seal shouldn't be dangling on the valve stem above! The seal is like a little hat with a hole in the top of it and a garter spring round the hole. If any have come off just ease them back into position.

Nigel

[tweetyduck]

OK. rocker cover is simple even for me. Thanks i might give it a try tomorrow.

[shanghai1979]

def the valve issue or turbo. I'd say turbo, remove the turbo hose and see if it's dripping in oil inside. Give the turbo a gentle wiggle about too so you can feel for excess movement. It should spin freely too. You should be able to get a 2nd hand turbo easily. I saw one a few weeks ago for £30 on a forum.Can't remember which though sorry. Give it a google though if the turbo is the problem.

No advice for the valve issue other than try what was suggested.

[tweetyduck]

Thanks. I've had the turbo pipe off when i was messing with the cables on the alternator. There isn't a deal of oil in there and i checked it spins freely and didn't wobble. To me (being a novice with such things) it seems perfectly fine. The residue in there was minimal and the wobble was minute if any.

So it looks like its a valve issue then. I'm off to take the rocker cover off today.

[tweetyduck]

is ETC8663 what i'm looking for ?

http://www.lrseries....AL.html?limit=0

TA

I have to admint i'm lost. How the hell can i see inside the spring?

Should i remove the rocker shaft so i can get a better look ?

[tweetyduck]

is its the item shown circled in red thats moved in the direction of the arrow?

[keithjh]

is its the item shown circled in red thats moved in the direction of the arrow?

Neil,

You have the right part circled it should be sat on the head, it pushes over a lip which holds it in place, if its not sat flush to the head, ie has moved up the valve carefully push it downwards to re-seat it over the lip, DO NOT use a sharp screwdrivwer as if you tear it, its head off time.

Keith

[tweetyduck]

Thanks Keith. I can see some of them are up off the head.

and thanks to everyone else for the pointers. This may just be the right fix for the issue.

[cackshifter]

Neill I wouldn't lose too much sleep if you can't get them back. If you think about it, they are only going to do anything really when there's a vacuum beneath. So on some engines there are no seals on the exhaust, as there's always positive pressure the other way, especially with a turbo. Re the inlets, there is sometimes negative, sometimes positive pressure. I think it's actually the boost that blows them up, and certainly it blows oil upwards rather than down. So the only real time they do much is when there is no boost, in your case most noticeably at start when maybe a drop or two has trickled down. If it happens whilst on your travels - ignore it - you might have a smoky start, but at least your valve guides will be well lubricated. Once the engine's doing some work, and there's positive boost the oil probably isn't going to leak past anyway.

Nigel

[tweetyduck]

Thanks for all the advice Nigel, Keith and Shanghai. I actually aborted the attempt as it was getting dark. So i just replaced the rocker seal (new one) and put it all back together. Its a quick job to whip it off again once i know more. I did the below once it was back together. I started it up and did a bit of messing about with the cold engine.

If i press the gas hard and release theres a big puff of black for the first 1/4 second and then its normal running at idle revs. No oil or black just normal exhaust. Not worried about the black much as that is surely normal due to unburt fuel.

When i accelerate hard and keep the revs up high (constant high revs) the black's there at the beggining as above and the blue smoke is there but the blue comes out reasonably consistantly (smoke machine)

I never had time to get the engine up to temp to try it again once the engine was warm but if you ask me the black stays at the beginning and the blue goes completely. This is indicative of what happens by the time i get to the end of the road. I suppose i need to get it up to temp and try the same again.

Does that still sound like the seals?

The turbo spins freely and there was no oil of note in the pipes. I changed all the pipes about a week ago to Silicon and none of them were oily, the old ones were just a bit black and slimy inside. I cleaned the cyclone at the same time and flushed that out completely, again nothing worrying to me. I could look in the new pipes as they should still be clean as i've only done about a 100 miles since.

[cackshifter]

Sounds like it's all completely ok to me, except you may be getting a bit of blue smoke at a cold start from those stem seals leaking slightly. The black smoke is as you say just the cold start enrichment, or you may get a puff if you blip the throttle before the turbo spools up. That's all very normal. From what you say the blue smoke is there just at the start, and that points to those seals that aren't in place maybe letting a bit past. But remember literally one drip of oil can produce a lot of smoke, so it's probably no more than that just leaking down the guides sometimes when it's stopped, and burning away as you start it and get to the end of the road. Irritating but harmless, and not indicative of excessive wear.

Nigel

[tweetyduck]

Thats good to know. Thanks a million for the help and the quick responses.

[keithjh]

Sounds like it's all completely ok to me, except you may be getting a bit of blue smoke at a cold start from those stem seals leaking slightly. The black smoke is as you say just the cold start enrichment, or you may get a puff if you blip the throttle before the turbo spools up. That's all very normal. From what you say the blue smoke is there just at the start, and that points to those seals that aren't in place maybe letting a bit past. But remember literally one drip of oil can produce a lot of smoke, so it's probably no more than that just leaking down the guides sometimes when it's stopped, and burning away as you start it and get to the end of the road. Irritating but harmless, and not indicative of excessive wear.

Nigel

Neil

Would totally agree with the above

Keith

[Landowner]

Now this may not cure your problem but it is well worth doing as a preventative maintenance measure to ensure no problems cropping up in the future.

There is a banjo connection at the back of the pump where the fuel returning from the injectors via the leak off pipes accesses the pump then returns to the tank.

Take this off and you will find a small filter inside the banjo and a pin hole in the shank. Make sure the filter and the pin hole are cleaned out and then refit.

Then renew the leak off pipes between the injectors making sure to bleed them with the engine running (make sure fuel coming out from injectors)

This cured my lack of power, missfire and blue smoke problem completely. I'm not saying that it will fix yours but easy to do and well worth the effort for peace of mind in the future.