RichardAllen Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 For some time now a simple enginering principle has been nagging at the back of my mind. "For all threaded fastenrs if you want it to come apart again - apply Copperslip, if not, Loctite. One or the other" As a universal rule applicable to all Land Rover threaded fasteners (ie not rivets or plastic trim buttons) is there any significant departure from this rule ? Comments please ? Regards Richard PS The above principle clearly excludes original vehicle build where application of a few pence worth of Loctite would save Land Rover from having to go through all the trouble of selling £millions in spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I typically use copper grease on anything that's got a nylock on it, and isn't a crucial part of the vehicle. Threadlock gets used on crucial components that need to stay as they are - which threadlock should look after, where as copper grease won't. Examples: Front wings, front panel, etc - copper grease Swivel bolts - threadlock. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I use copper grease on bolts that involve water or are likely to get rusted into something. Eg: Thermostat housing Water pump A-frame arms to ball-joint mount bolts (but only on the shank, not on the threads) And I use Loctite wherever either the workshop manual recommends it, or I have had problems with things coming undone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thermostat housing Water pump These two really appreciate copper grease!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 What I mean is: every threaded fastener should have either copperslip or loctite. I have been trying to think of exceptions and have not found any. Can anyone put up a good argument for any one Land Rover threaded fastener which should never have either Loctite or copperslip on it ? Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I guess the argument is that if the bolt is tightened to the correct torque as specified by the engineer who designed the joint, then it shouldn't need Loctite unless it is in an application that is likely to work loose. Things like suspension fixings are mostly nylocs, which should remove the need for Loctite. Of course adding it won't hurt, but if they deemed it necessary for safety then I'm sure they would specify it in the manuals. A lot of fixings use spring washers too, and other anti-loosening systems like locking wire. As I said above, I don't bother unless it's specified or I've had problems in the past. I don't seem to have any issues with bits falling off my car yet... Are head bolts treated with either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky tango Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 head bolts ? ive been told nothing should be there not even a trace of water from original head-block disassembly, and the reason i was told was that it is not compressible and so you would hit your measured torque reading although the bolt itself isnt actually torqued down it is just sitting torqued against the liquid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAllen Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 So no Loctite on suspensions nylocs - fair enough, but would you put copperslip on the thread to make sure you could get it apart again ? Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I tend to put copperslip on every thread when putting the 110 back together, even wheel nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 V8 heads should be set with loctite thread lubricant and sealer. Nyloks should be fitted dry. Exhaust bolts should be locked with tab washers or spring washers, not threadlock or copperslip due to the heat, spring washers will over time loose their temper which is why I use tab washers on the headers if at all possible. Lots of stuff on my old Fords used tab washers, like the steering rack mounts. Lots of people use copperslip to prevent bolts seizing, but if it's applied correctly threadlock will prevent the ingress of water and provide at least the same amount of protection (as does the nylon in a nylok). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (as does the nylon in a nylok). No it doesn't. A nyloc might protect the section of thread it's in contact with, but it certainly doesn't protect the shank of a bolt, nor the exposed threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Nothing will protect the exposed threads, but a nylok fitted to a new bolt will form a water resistant seal. Unless the nut/panel interface allows moisture ingress the bolt is offered some protection from the elements. A plated bolt for example would stay in good condition for a number of years fitted only with a nylok. Of course they need to be tight, which is possibly why LR owners are not familiar with this phenomenon, but on cars that are bolted together properly it's quite common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yalan Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 To answer your original question..... Personally I use threadlock where recomended by the manual. I use copperslip on particularly prone items such as thermostat housing. IMHO you shouldn't use anything where it is not specifically recommended. Especially for torqued bolts. Reason being adding copperslip (etc) acts as a lubricant. Bolts turn easier & therefore will compress a joint tighter than a dry joint for the same given torque. This could break bolts or damage components through over tightening. Can't remember where I read it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuman Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 To answer your original question..... Personally I use threadlock where recomended by the manual. I use copperslip on particularly prone items such as thermostat housing. IMHO you shouldn't use anything where it is not specifically recommended. Especially for torqued bolts. Reason being adding copperslip (etc) acts as a lubricant. Bolts turn easier & therefore will compress a joint tighter than a dry joint for the same given torque. This could break bolts or damage components through over tightening. Can't remember where I read it though! I agree, only time I use threadlock where it's not specified is on drive flange bolts as I've had them work loose a few times even when torqued correctly. I've stopped bothering with copperslip on brake pads now, pads come with the damping rubbery stuff on the back and the copperslip disappears after the first offroad trip!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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