LEZ London 2012.

[Bumpyride]

Gents

I’d read through the previous discussions concerning the LEZ and think I have a reasonable idea of the options tabled, however I haven’t really got a good feel for the level of success people have had with each idea. Plus much of the intelligent discussion is punctuated by some not so intelligent comments.

I sure I’m not alone in having a commercial LR living in London and wish to avoid /can’t afford to replace it in Jan 2012.

So I thought I’d do my best and list the options available to us and try to appraise which methods work in removing the vehicle from the list. Guys I’d appreciate its a bit if a read but if you have any comments and additions should I have missed anything. I thought it would be useful to have a one stop doc to help owners on what to do. At then end of the day we all just want to avoid losing our pride of joys.

The comments below are based on two documents, firstly the V05 listing and secondly the TFL flow chart which can be found as a pdf at. http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=64203

The flow chart specifically lists Landrovers and so claiming they are designed for off-road use is a no go.

Below focuses on 90/110’s but I would think the same logic could be applied to series 2+3.

Route 1: DVLA Listing.

Should the DVLA V05 list the vehicle Body Type as anything other than an estate, such as a sports utility vehicle or a light goods vehicle, then TFL view the vehicle as potentially coming under LEZ.

Can I confirm All 110/90’s even station wagons will be listed a light utility 4x4?

If the 90/110 is for some reason listed as an estate then it’s a matter of notifying the Transport for London that they have misclassified the LR and you need to be removed from the list on non-exempt vehicles.

If so is this 100% successful? Has anybody failed with this method?

If your 90/110 is an original factory fitted Station wagon, then digit 7 of you VIN will read B for a 3 door station wagon – I assume this only is applied to the 90 wheel base. For the 5 door station wagon ie a 110, the letter is M.

As the VIN can not be changed then a non factory fitted station wagon can not claim emption by this route. If you do have a B or M then as per page 5 of TFL’s flowchart (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=64203) (Post 2.) you should be exempt, to get official notification you notify TFL with pictures etc.

Has this been 100% successful? Has anybody had any problems with this route?

The Taxation Class – all defenders are PLG Private light goods. This is the same as cars etc and so can not be used to identify LR’s as non compliant.

Route 2:

If:

1.Your V05 reads light goods

2.You don’t have an original county station wagon

Then….. You have 4 options.

1.Try to claim a station wagon style by means of pictures.

a.How successful is this? Has anybody been refused?

2.Claim minibus conversion as per Pg 5 of the flow chart, requires exactly 9 seats if so as per Pg 3 of the flow chart its exempt.

a.Do sideward facing seats count? If so can we just add these to a hardtop and claim a minibus.

i.Noting it would be a minibus without seatbelts.

ii.Do you need to add rear windows?

b. Convert a 110 to a station wagon style –, new tub and rear bulkhead required. 5 forward facing sets, 4 sideways fold down ones in the back. If you do this then is it more appropriate to claim as a station wagon as per Pg 5 of the flowchart.

3. Convert to a motor caravan, ambulance / hearse. Not the easiest or most desirable options.

4.Fit a filter.

a.Discussion suggests £1-2K and there appears to be a lack of manufacturers information.

Finally what is the potential to bypass this by re-applying for a v05 – ie as an Q reg, ie you have replaced enough parts to re-list and therefore can relist with the LR as a station wagon. If you go this route then insurance cost will no doubt rise and you will need a DVLA local inspection.

Thoughts appreciated.

[zardos]

Of your options you have missed some.

5. Fit a V8 and optionally an LPG kit. (engines are fairly cheap)

6. Fit a newer Veg Oil burner engine (TDV6 or TDV8) that meets the emission regs.

[western]

There are code letters within the chassis number [VIN] which cannot be changed if the body type is pysically changed.

Convert a 110 to a station wagon style –, new tub and rear bulkhead required. 5 forward facing sets, 4 sideways fold down ones in the back. If you do this then is it more appropriate to claim as a station wagon as per Pg 5 of the flowchart.

my 110CSW for example is SALLDHMB7FA******

So for my vehicle the important code letter is M or B for 90 3 door station wagonsnote these letters are also used to determine body types of non Defender models too.

the other body code letters are -------------------

Body Style -------

A Basic

Soft Top

Pickup

Hardtop Van Commercial

Freelander 3 Door Commercial

Discovery 3 or 5 Door

B Series III 88" Station Wagon

Defender 3door Station Wagon

Range Rover Classic 2 door

Discovery 3 door

Freelander 5 Door

F Defender 4 door Crew cab non Hi-capacity

H High Capacity Pick Up with/without crew cab

M Defender 5door Station Wagon

Range Rover Classic 5 door

Range Rover (38A) 5 door

Discovery 5 door

R Range Rover Moneverdi

[Retroanaconda]

I can tell you that genuine station wagons should be listed as 'Estate' on the V5C. However, they neglected to ensure that they all are since my 110 CSW is still listed as a utility. It is a genuine CSW as denoted by the VIN.

[western]

I can tell you that genuine station wagons should be listed as 'Estate' on the V5C. However, they neglected to ensure that they all are since my 110 CSW is still listed as a utility. It is a genuine CSW as denoted by the VIN.

only station wagon 5 or 3 door is listed as part of the VIN, County or XS station wagons don't have a seperate VIN identifier.

my 110 was original registered by the supplying dealer correctly as a 'Estate' body type on the first reg application, it's this that needs to be amended on V5's for station wagons that are shown as light utility 4x4

[reb78]

If all else fails, Route 3..... fit a v8 on lpg... diesel running costs and v8 performance. Cheaper than the filter, especially when you can sell the tdi(?) and recoup the costs.

Edit-zardos has already mentioned it. Should have read more before posting!

[Bumpyride]

thanks gents for the replys to date.

has anybody tried 2 converting or at least claiming a minibus convertion, with sidewards facing seats? Or secondly changing the body physically to a station wagon and then sending photos to TFL?

[Ed Poore]

My understanding of it was that if it was a minibus then you'd still have to comply with the Low Emissions Zone but perhaps under different regs.

[the real muddy90]

Chaps, this doesn't affect me but I thought I'd stick my nose in as one of my members is.

Looking at the chart & going on what you are saying re being registered as an 'estate' will only exempt 90 sw surely? A factory 110 has more than 8 seats & will be classed as a minibus & will therefore be caught that way. "is the vehicle designed & constructed to have more than 9 seats?" YES!

Will removing some seats & changing your v5 be enough to get round this? As page 5 only says "does the vehicle have more than 8 seats" The critical bit designed & constructed is missing!

So in my eyes, it is not enough just to have your 110sw properly classified as an estate but need to sort the seating out.

Unless you're lucky enough to have a factory designed & built 110sw with more than 8 seats but no more than 9 to make it a minibus!

The stupid thing is that disco's & rangies with the same tdi & td5 engines are ok!

[Ed Poore]

That is correct. However I have spoken to TFL in the past and they were next to useless. There was a long "discussion" about how they determine how to charge you, this was a while ago, pre flow chart.

The outcome was that they said it should only apply to commercial vehicles that weighed (kerb weight) over 1.02 tons (or some figure close to that, I can't remember the exact one). However the process by which they decided what was commerical and what wasn't was basically that they looked at the Maximum Gross Weight of the vehicle and if this was over 1.02 tons then if it was a diesel it had to comply with the LEZ. I then tried to explain to them that the weight they were actually looking at was nothing to do with the what the vehicle actually weighed as it included what it was allowed to tow / carry in the boot. She then countered that my vehicle (300Tdi 110CSW) was over the limit anyway so what did it matter? I replied saying that yes it was over 1.02 tons but it actually weighed ~2.1 tons not what they think the V5C says which is 3.5 tons.

I then spoke with the DVLA and they were far more helpful but confessed that they had no bloody clue as to what TFL were trying to do. They'd apparently had people get in touch with them (as they've had quite a few questions about the LEZ) and they don't understand how on earth TFL are classifying vehicles. They did say though that if I was able to provide valid proof to accompany any changes I wanted made to the V5C then they'd be more than happy to accommodate them. The stupid thing is that we also have a Mitsubishi Shogun which should also have to comply (older that the 110) but that first of all has the Body Type registered as Estate and secondly they haven't got any weights put down on the vehicle.

Having said that I did send one letter with the V5C to Swansea asking them to change the body type (and if possible remove the weight since the Shogun's was missing it) but they replied back saying that they could only change the body type to estate if I had a letter from Land Rover stating that my vehicle came off the production line as a SW. I've since been caught up with lots of stuff and haven't got around to doing anything but I will try and send in photos over the next week or so before having to chase up Land Rover for a letter.

In terms of 110's that were "designed" according to TFL as minibuses - TFL only have access to the information Swansea provide therefore if this is a problem you can change the number of seats on the V5C to below the limit. Mine is currently plated as 9 seats (including driver) although it came with 10 seats. Although the V5 originally had no number under the seating capacity I had this changed to 9 since at the time I could apply for a Congestion Charge exemption under those conditions and I having it plated at 10 seats makes it a pain in the backside with insurers etc.

Hope that provides a bit more information and background - basically that TFL are useless and they themselves have got no clue about what's going on. Whilst trying to speak to someone on the phone I got transferred 9 times between 3 people, one of them managed to transfer me to herself and claimed it was a different department, the others said they were transferring me to the relevant department and transferred me back and forth. I'm afraid that after about 15 minutes on the phone (after eventually getting through to the "right" department) I got so fed up I hung up on them but wasn't getting anywhere so there was no benefit to continuing.