calle-fas Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Hi all. I currently run a 40cc hydraulic pump on PTO. Car is a Td5 Defender, no AC. Problem is winch being to slow for proper drive assist. That and the fact that I can't reverse with PTO engaged due to the construction of my hydro system. The winch I'm currently using is a Runva HWP13000A3 but my aim is upgrading to a Saley winch in a distant future. So I'm looking into options for driving the pump directly from the engine. Using the serpentine belt is not a preferred option since I'm not sure it will deliver the power needed. I would gladly use a chain to drive it, but can't really see how I would best route it. Does anyone on here know if it has been done? All options and opinions are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 i dont know of any out there yet as ive been looking abit. it wouldnt be hard to fab up a direct drive from the crank to the pump. i dont think i'd have enough room to fit a mini propshaft to link them up, so i'd go down the cush drive route which is nice and compact. if you were going to use the vacant a/c slot and use a chain drive you would need to fit an idler pully somewhere as the chain would be a long bugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I had a 30cc hydraulic pump on my Defender TD5, mounted in the AC-slot. First tried a V-belt, but that was unable to transmit the torque once it got wet. The serpentine belt would have the smae problems I think. We switched to a chain, which worked fine but I couildn't fing a suitable clutch for the chain drive. We had a lot of trouble to fab something ourselves, in it turned out to be the weak point of the system. With a suitable clutch and perhaps the addition of a chain guard, I still think it's the best solution for a TD5. There is very little room in front of the engine for a direct driven pump (with a Tdci it would be a lot easier). I have just completed the install of a Milemarker on my P38a V8, with a much smaller pump (speed isn't an issue for my use) that is driven by the serpentine belt. Haven't had a chance to test it yet, but as we're leaving for Ladoga next week, I'm sure I'll get plenty of opportunity there. Greetz, Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 forgot that people still have front mounted rads ! mines in the back and the engine has been moved aswel so i have pleanty of room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calle-fas Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Thanks for the replies. I do have the rad front mounted as it's my daily drive as well. How did you route your chain Filip? This is just a crazy idea. But could it be possible or just idiotic to access the camshaft sprocket through the access plug on the cylinder head and get power from there? The chain would easily route straight to the AC mounting slot. I have not checked if the plug is centered over the sprocket yet though. I can see many problems with this solution, mainly the risks of damaging the cylinder head or camshaft sprocket assembly. But would it be possible or just plain stupid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 im sure it would load up the timing chain like buggery. the chain is wide, but not that big. the blacking plug is directly in line with the cam sprocket, but you would need to fab some kind of drive and bearing boss to fit back into its place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calle-fas Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 im sure it would load up the timing chain like buggery. the chain is wide, but not that big. the blacking plug is directly in line with the cam sprocket, but you would need to fab some kind of drive and bearing boss to fit back into its place. Yep. The load on the timing chain is probably what puts this idea in the bin. At least in my case with a pump that big. The fabrication is a bit above my level, but possible I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 And its half the speed of the crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 And its half the speed of the crank. yes but you could soon gear it to the correct speed by choosing the sprocket sizes for the drive chain to the pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calle-fas Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 yes but you could soon gear it to the correct speed by choosing the sprocket sizes for the drive chain to the pump It might even be an advantage as most hydro pumps are not keen on going faster than 3000 rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3DPE Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 There will be a kit for the TD5 available very soon! It has been tried and tested and worked very well! approx 2-3 months away soon! Send me a email if you are interested. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calle-fas Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 There will be a kit for the TD5 available very soon! It has been tried and tested and worked very well! approx 2-3 months away soon! Send me a email if you are interested. Dan Very interested. PM sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 V8 90 Jon on here has a chain driven hydro pump on his V8 driving a Saley winch. I know the routing will be a bit different, but I'm sure the same components could be used. Drop him a PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I do have the rad front mounted as it's my daily drive as well. How did you route your chain Filip? It'll be a few weeks until he can reply but I'll see if I can snap some pics next time I'm in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorak_Stan Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 V8 90 Jon on here has a chain driven hydro pump on his V8 driving a Saley winch. I know the routing will be a bit different, but I'm sure the same components could be used. Drop him a PM I know Jon's V8 Setup VERY well his truck has been on the End of My Winch Rope on MANY an occasion However His V8 Setup (Plus Most Others I Think) is significantly different to the TD5, plus Jon seems Pretty happy @ present with his Ne Dog Clutch & Twin Chain Drive. I however am DYING to get a suitable TD5 Engine Driven Pump solution to replace My PTO Pump. Lyndon C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Right, took some pics for you. A/C location, chain idler in front of the belt idler and hooked up to the crank pulley. It was hard to take the pics though as space is tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calle-fas Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thanks Ben for filling in for me. Routing the chain was quite easy, the damper in front of the crankshafpulley was replaced with a chainwheel, an idler/tensioner (of a P38a Diesel aircon system) was added and the pump/clutch assembly positioned where the AC compressor would sit. The clutch is what let me down in the end... I would never tap into the timing chain, too much load and too much risk. With a dedicated chain, you can always take it off (even in between events) and still have a complete standard set-up. On a side note, having completed some tests on the P38a hydraulic winch, I must say I am very pleased! It's using the serpentine belt (slightly longer than standard) and an electromagnetic clutch on the pump. Even with the engine dipped in water the belt didn't slip and I had plenty of pulling power even on the outer layer. As said, I did use a small pump to limit the power required. I'd say on full load speed was slightly higher then the Warn XP on one of the other cars, on part load the electric winches where faster off course, but by increasing revs (the pump can handle 3500 rpm and has approx 1:1 drive) and/or using the high gear of the Milemarker, respooling was still more then fast enough for my winchbitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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