stuck Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Gents, Recently had the radiator split in my 110, fitted a new one last night but I still have an issue: Filled the system until I got a ittle coolant coming out of the bleed screw in the top hose, ran the engine for a minute at tick over then topped up the expansion tank to the correct level. If I drive her gently she seems to warm up and run at temperatures you would expect, if driven hard the temperature hits the red line very quickly and then the needle dives off the cold end of the gauge. Under the bonnet I find the top hose and expansion tank are both empty, add around a litre of water (immediatley after it's "overheated") and the gauge returns to where it usualy is (i.e. not hot). At normal temperature and at tick over I can see & hear a bit of vapour issuing from the expansion cap top, after a run the bulkhead is drenched as though it's blowing the water out of the tank. When the rad split is it possible I've cooked the expansion tank cap or is something more sinister at play? Oil looks ok and power is normal. Thanks, Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 try running it at idle with the expansion cap off, to give any trapped air a chance to escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosbeldia Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 You didn't follow the correct procedure. You must put heater at max and take a short trip with until temp reaches normal level. Then is when you can complete level.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 Thanks chaps, Will give that a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Right, tried that. Left it ticking over for over an hour with the cap off but it's still blowing the coolant out when driven hard (I.e. Up a steep hill) Any ideas please? Thanks, Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 .PDF file attached gives the recommended refill procedure for Td5 coolant system. I don't know if you already have it. File0351.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inaine Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 water pump? sounds like its over heating, boiling to me. there not that hard to bleed through TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi_110 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 At normal temperature and at tick over I can see & hear a bit of vapour issuing from the expansion cap top, after a run the bulkhead is drenched as though it's blowing the water out of the tank. I think that is significant. If the expansion tank is not holding pressure, your coolant may well boil when the engine is under load, and you're losing it all over the bulkhead. Could be more than a leaky cap, could be a good sized split in the tank that's opening when the pressure builds. The TD5 has lots of plumbing, check all your coolant hoses and clips. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Chua Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 when it falls to the blue this means that there's no coolant at the sensor. this fault points to the water pump. simple test. rev the engine hard, does the water (coolant) shoot up of the expansion tank when the cap is open? it should if the pump is working well. when you get to the point when it suddenly hits the red and in a split second later it goes to the blue, stop the car. turn off the engine. do you hear bubbling noises? this indicates the coolant is boiling. when it boils, it will push coolant out of the expansion tank cap as it's designed to release at about 1bar. get it fixed soon. mine had this problem 'suddenly' it was like everything was fine and suddenly it happened while driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thanks for all the replies gents. Water pump seems fine, have drained and refilled the rad exactly to procedure and have still got the same issue. Replaced expansion cap, ditto. One thing I have noticed is at tick over with the cap off the expansion tank looks like it's boiling ( it isn't , I can comfortably keep my finger in the water) is that normal?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 One thing I have noticed is at tick over with the cap off the expansion tank looks like it's boiling ( it isn't , I can comfortably keep my finger in the water) is that normal?! It's it actually air coming up the expansion tank? Does it smell of diesel combustion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Yes it's air, doesn't smell of combustion gasses. Another strange thing is at the front of the radiator (O/S) there's a small hose at the bottom, this is stone cold, ive even worked this hose loose with the engine running, water remains stone cold. Doing my head in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi_110 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Doing my head in! You may well have... if that air is not from boiling coolant, then it could be from a cylinder. The bottom of the rad is typically cooler until the thermostat opens and allows the engine to draw from there and replace some hot water which is fed back in to the top of the rad. Have you checked the thermostat? If it's frozen shut, you wont be getting enough flow to the block when shes running at other than an idle, you could be getting boiling in the block in that case. The thermo is the plastic Y shaped unit coupled to the top hose just behind and to the left of the rad. If it's not been done for a while, replace it and eliminate it as being a potential cause, part number PEM100990. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Chaps, Sorry to drag this up again, but I'm still at a loss... Done a bit more digging so would appreciate your opinions. I've now replaced the thermostat / bypass valve assembly but it's still the same: at tick over lots of bubbles in the expansion tank, rev her up and she blows the coolant out. All coolant hoses are pressurised but only the block outlet pipe and heater hoses are getting hot even with new stat fitted. If I disconnect the small pipe that runs between the radiator and the expansion tank I get very aerated water coming out of the radiatior port but the expansion tank continues to bubble, this coupled with the fact that the block outlet hose gets much hotter when i pump it by hand is leading me towards the water pump but I'm confused by the fact that all the hoses are pressurised. I guess if the engine was boiling the water in the block it could generate sufficent air pressure to pressurise the hoses without transfering heat to the radiator and if worked hard lift the safety cap on the expansion tank? From the manual I see that the pump is driven by two lugs that are driven by the power steering pump shaft, is it possible for the pump or the drive lugs to fail completely? I realy don't think it's a head gasket problem but I'm at a loss as to what is going on. Would realy appreciate any advice or there is going to be a cheap 110 TD5 appearing in the For Sale section soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1968 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm not an expert on the TD5, but from your description is sounds to me like a head gasket problem...... Can you take it to a local garage and get it pressure tested, or a sniffer test done on the expansion tank. HTH, Gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I've read about the water pump shearing a few times, so that's a possibility. But from the symptoms, it sounds like the head gasket. As Gary says, I'd get it tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi_110 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The water pump doesn't realy "pressurise" the cooling system, that's caused by heat expansion. The pump just moves water from the block to the rad or around the bypass until the thermo opens. You pretty much have two possibilities: 1. The pump is not working, water is boiling in the block because it's not getting to the rad. I don't beleive this is the case because the aeration is not steam, your reservoir is not heating up. You could, of course, just replace it to eliminate it as being a potential cause (PEM500040)... Now, where have I heard that before? 2. You've a blown head gasket, between a pot and the water jacket, and its gently injecting a stream of gas into the coolant at idle, and great gouts of it under throttle. I think this is the problem. As the guys said, get the local to put a sniffer on the reservior, although I understand it's not conclusive with diesels. You're not alone. I'm off to Aussie next month to do far north QLD in an ex-Telstra stretched cab 130 with a TD5. It's been up on blocks for 2 years and last I heard had a coolant leak so I'm taking spare thermo, pump, gaskets, injector harness, brake lines, and plenty of suspension bushes... Stick with it, you'll nail it eventually. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Thanks for all the advice chaps, Took the water pump off and it's fine so it's head off time. I'm certainly learning my way around a TD5 engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I'm certainly learning my way around a TD5 engine Feel free to photo/write up for everyone else to find their way around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 Gents, Forgive my ignorance but would you expect to be able to see where a head gasket has gone on a diesel? Taken mine off and i can't see anything obvious. Ta, Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi_110 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If it's a MLS (Multi Layer Steel) gasket it may not be obvious because it could just be delaminated in a small part. Since your symptoms did not include cross-contamination between oil and coolant, I feel that you'd be looking at a small section of delamination between a cylinder and a coolant gallery. Esp since it was minor at idle. When your rediator went, was it an overheat situation? That would contribute to a head gasket failure. How many thickness indicator holes does your gasket have? Be sure to replace with the same thickness. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 Thanks Ray, Yes she overheated when the radiator failed. Gasket has one thickness indicator dot, not sure what that means but I'll ensure the same goes back on. There is some delamination on the front of the gasket but I think thats from removing the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Gasket has one thickness indicator dot, not sure what that means but I'll ensure the same goes back on similar identity system of thickness to Tdi head gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
africanpete Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi How did you get on? Was it the gasket? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hi How did you get on? Was it the gasket? Pete Sorry Pete, I've only just seen your post. Yes it was the head gasket, if anybody has similar symptoms on a TD5 don't panic, assuming the head isn't warped it's relatively straight forward to fix and doable in a weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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