mudmuncher Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Hello everyone Doesn't anyone know is it possible to buy a double cardon prop for the rear on a 90 ? I get quite a lot of prop vibration when coming of the throttle (due to the suspension lift) I fitted a double cardon prop to the front and it completely stop the front vibration however I still get vibration from the rear prop I have a wide angle one fitted At the moment But can you get a rear double cardon ?? Many thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Sure you can, but the rear axle is not set up for it (pinion needs to point towards tcase) so you'll get vibrations. Sure your current driveshaft hasn't got bad ujoints or slider? I just have a DC driveshaft made for my 112" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 What hight lift have you got out of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Could it be that the propshaft is phased incorrectly? No expert, but sometimes that can cause problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Could it be that the propshaft is phased incorrectly? No expert, but sometimes that can cause problems. Its only the front thats usualy "out of phase", the rear is usualy inline... hmm there are a fair few bearings that can rattle, have you had a good look at the rear transfer box output flange/bearing... my experience is its quite hard to tell if that bearing is going as the brake drum is quite heavy and kind of dulls the effect of any play, that needs taking off etc to have a propper good look at it. - loose/worn prop expansion splines and play in UJ's can all create bad vibrations.. prop had any modifications? could be unbalanced... but it does depend on your lift setup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Hi everyone A little more info for you the 90 has a 2 1/2 inch lift (ome set up ) the gear and transfer boxes are Ashcroft recon units only 5000 miles ago so I would of thought I could rule them out ?? The slider on the prop shalf is a bit stiff but there is no play and the ujs are fine just doesn't slide as well as it should Any thoughts now ??? Maybe the prop slider ?? Also rear diff does have a slight excess of play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Try to free up the slider see how that goes... In what direction does the diff have play in it? Can you move the flange up and down (like 90degrees on the centreline of the pinion shaft) or rotational play? First one is bad, second one is 'quite normal'. If the first one that would need looking at as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Tonight I have removed the prop free up the slider and checked the ujs this is all ok So the rear diff is ok Prop ujs and slider ok Drive flanges etc ok Gear and transfer box recons by Ashcroft 5000 miles ago So what else could cause the back to vibrate when I lift off throttle Serously now the only thing I can maybe see as a problem Is the nose of the diff is pointing slighty towards the ground so not parallel to the transfer box flange for it to be parallel to the transfer flange I would need to bring the diff nose up slightly Is this possible to do this at all ?? Eg shorter trailing arms ?? Or just realise its cos of the lift and and forget about it Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Ps although I am having problems with my front diff aswell ( nige helping me with this ) I have isolated this as a rear driveline problem as I have tested it with the front prop removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hmmm does it only happen when you lift off the power and idle her? - the only time I have had that kind of symptom was when the rear diff drive pinion bearing was on its way out, there was only a slight bit of play, but rather than vibrated it juts grumbled very very loudly. - are you getting a propper vibration or a grumblings? - vibration would lead me to think something is out of ballance.. and when you take the power off, the slack in the system allows the imbalance to "show itself" in the form of a vibration. are the counter balance weights still present on the prop shaft? (usually lillte square plates tack/spot welded onto the prop) Is the prop properly seating on the transfer box output flange and the rear diff flange?... is the hand brake drum central on the drive flange? - have you checked the prop shaft yolks to make sure the knuckles of the UJ are not touching the yolk... What happens when you brake hard? anything? I found that a lift can really mess up the transmission, - do you have cranked trailing armes installed at all? - I'm guessing not.... the diff shouldn't be pointing at the floor, it should have a slight incline up towards the transfer box... I've got cranked front and back radius arms and my lift is 20-30mm (i think, not entirly sure anymore) they cam ewith the vehicle so I left them on, but this does improve the rear diff nose angle, I've heard people say that you can get away with standard radius arms with anything up to 40mm (~2inch) but thats with running props at ther limit etc.. its a fine balance. I think I've exhausted my experiences on the subject now... hope it helps. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Many thanks for the that last post mav I Do have cranked trailing arms I think after a second look at the angle of the rear diff is mainly parallel I added a shim to the cranked arms to see if the diff position was a problem just by adding a 5 mm shim to both sides made the noise 10 times worst !!!! So with this in mind I am sure the angle is correct Like you said mav I done get vibration I just get very load grumbling noises when I lift off the throttle when over say 40 mph The prop is 100% ok I honestly think the diff is fine I can't feel no play in it but maybe your right ! Should I change the diff ? Or just fit a double Cardon rear prop as that cured the front vibration Any help Is really grateful I am running out of ideas !!! Many thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You can also correct the pinon angle and use a wide-angle prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmuncher Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I can confirm the piñon angle must be correct as I have cranked arms and I have tried fitting shims tonight this only made it worst !!! So pinon angle is ok I also have a wide angle prop fitted ! It must be the diff surely ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Have you tried rotating your tyres, checking for play in the rear hubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) I can confirm the piñon angle must be correct as I have cranked arms and I have tried fitting shims tonight this only made it worst !!! So pinon angle is ok I also have a wide angle prop fitted ! It must be the diff surely ?? (I have cranked arms, with red/white springs on back, with yellow HD lifted springs on front - wide angle props on front and rear) I was running a Salisbury that I knew the diff pinion bearings was going, occasionally it used to rumble... it didn't bother me too much. I then popped a 2" spacer under both rear springs as the ride height was annoying me as she had a saggy bottom... after i did this the grumbling became that loud you couldn't have a conversation in the cab... the lift was waaaaay over the top, so I dropped the spacer height at the rear to 1" which made her look a lot better. - grumblings declined but was still there. - decided to swap out Salisbury for a disco disc brake rear. - Disco axle was refurbed, but with an old diff, but other than the back-lash, there was zero play in the pinion bearing (nice)... put in on the truck with the 1" lift setup and its quiet as a mouse... until recently when I detected a slight grumble of power lift off... so from deductions it seems that even the slightest bit of play in the pinion bearing grumbling is exacerbated by lift, as you are increasing your prop angles, even with cranked arms, this lines up the diff a little better, but you still have extra height added between the diff and transfer box... So I would say its your pinion bearing thats unhappy... Mav^^^ but might be worth checking your wheel bearing before you rip your diff out... Edited May 24, 2012 by Maverik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibex94 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hi all, A bit late I know but I'll drop this for others surfing the topic. I've just had my rear prop shortened for the ibex (Land Rover 100" Ibex 2.5m). I used H J Chard in Bristol (www.hjchardsons.co.uk - hjchard@hotmail.co.uk) service is really good and prices not ridiculous (~£80 for shortening - rebalance and service ~£60) they will do anything you want from mods to existing to make from scratch. They also have an extreme duty uj. I was talking to the chap about a double Cardon prop from a Toymota (Hilux think he said) which have them as std - he showed me a replacement (Chinese) component supplied by others which was Donald Duck after 8 miles! (£170 worth) he reconnect his price for producing an equivalent was about £400 - Toyota want £1k. Hope this helps someone. Rob Ps don't be surprised when you turn in through the gates of a builders merchants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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