zim Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Ok..so story goes. We went up to do the scotia challenge (300 miles each way @ not very good mpg!) and my little t-max 12v compressor freaked out. Thankfully we eventually managed to borrow an ARB item to get us through the day. So....time to fit an air con compressor. I've seen the other threads about what to do etc.... BUT people don't really talk about coolers. Are they required or not ? I intend to get another 12v compressor and also plumb that in to keep as reserve. Cheers Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I believe they are a good idea, as it helps reduce condensation build up. However I don't have one in my system, and haven't suffered unduly because of it. I do try and make sure I drain the tank from time to time, but really I guess it depends how much use it gets, i.e. duration of running. In thery you ought to have a water separator too, if you had that you could at least remove the condensation that does occur as a result of having no cooler I can't imagine ARB use uses THAT much air, unlike say tyre inflation. One writeup I read before I built my system, the chap had used a coil of copper located under the wing behind the headlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I assume you are talking about after the compressor, the hose can get pretty hot if the compressor is used for long periods. If you use refrigerant hose for the first section you should be OK, after that it tends to cool along the lenght of the hose and as it gets to the reservoir. In my experience what tends to kill the compressors is water getting into them and rusting the thin plate of the valves or running them hard for an extended time when they sieze up (as the valves rust out they run harder to produce the same air volume so tend to lock up in the end), they are designed to run with a lubricated refrigerent, running dry or even worse wet air will kill them in the end. I have sprayed WD40 in the intake to keep them lubricated in the past, not sure if it worked or not. I have run one for quite a few years to power air suspension and mostly they last a few years, I have always used second hand compressors so they may not have been great even before I got them. A cooler before the compressor might work to reduce moisture intake but not sure how cool it would have to be to work effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I don't have an air cooler, the airline from the compressor to the tank does go soft and has blown off the fitting before but hasn't burst of bubbled yet. I'm guessing most of the heat is from the engine as its pretty near the exhaust manifold. I have a lubricator on the inlet line and a trap on the outlet from the tank and drain the tank periodically usually resulting in lots of dirty water. That said HGVs are supposed to have air driers after the compressor but i've never got in one yet that didn't have loads of dirty water in the tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Thanks for the advice. I might just try it without then. I honestly have no real space under the bonnet due to loads of other little bits n bobs. What i'll do is just get a 1/4" hydraulic hose for with a swaged end that goes to the tank - should be ok with the heat - and shouldn't blow the end off as mentioned above. Cheers Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I plan to get a hydraulic hose made too. It's on the list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Gordon, my setup just uses 10mm OD Nylon pipe in stainless push-in fittings, right from the compressor body to the rest of the system. Not had any problem with hoses blowing off or going soft. I run to 100-110 PSI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Where did you get your fittings Mickey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 On mine I used about 6 foot of copper (Micro bore central heating tube) tube for the run from the pump to a water seperator / filter. Cooling the air before the filter helped it take out most of the water rather than it ending up in the tank. A cheap in-line oiler on the inlet stops the valves in the pump from rusting. The filter separator on the outlet then removes any oil vapour. The copper tube was wound into a coil - like a phone cable so was easy to accomodate. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Something like this in the inlet : ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SV343-Air-Line-Mini-In-line-Oiler-1-4-HEAVY-DUTY-NEW-/260825367918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cba67456e And this on the discharge ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-4-BSP-Mini-Line-Air-Filter-Moisture-Water-Trap-Spray-Guns-Air-Tools-/320881732886?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors&hash=item4ab60aad16 G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Was it wound around something to support it Si, or was it just left hanging so to speak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Well done Zim - exactly the ones! The tube came coiled with about a 200mm diameter. I just bent it by hand to be a bit tighter. 6 foot is a bit much thinking about it - more like 70cm to 1m. It's quite flexible so it forms the flexy link between the engine & wing - only supported at either end on the last few coils. Originally I used 10mm Nylon tube, but it kept melting & rupturing where it came out of the pump - with an impressive bang! I used the same tube from the filter to the reservoir but with the short length of copper to cool it, had no more problems. Another option (possibly neater) I've seen is to wrap a few turns of the copper tube round the back of the pump body (cable tie in place) then into filter then via nylon to the tank. It was separated from the body by a few mm - so I guess it was wound around something a little bigger then fixed in place. I think I would do it that way next time. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Something like this in the inlet : ? http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cba67456e And this on the discharge ? http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4ab60aad16 G Just a useless tip, if you know any diabetics beg a syringe off them, they are perfect for filling those lubricators I use them on the back of my air tools so that my airlines stay oil free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Barry, my fittings came from RS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Barry, my fittings came from RS. Hyphose and other hydraulics places do them as well and cheeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Made a start on this today. My first problem was that i'd changed the belts on my v8. Normally the main belt goes up to the water pump with the air con belt coming behind that... In my case the air con belt has to be in front, so i've spaced the bracket off the engine. My next problem was my oil filter was in the way, which meant making / moving hoses. The fittings on the RRC air con hoses are UNF. The suction being bigger than the discharge so i've got another discharge meaning i have two of the smaller fittings. JIC hydraulic fittings are UNF, so i've got 2 hoses made up and used a small 'cone adaptor' (the type that you use for a Jap bsp to UK bsp). *Should seal ok* It's 3/8 single wire hose. Neither the water trap nor the oiler have arrived. Tommorrow I'll cut the suction hose about 12" down and crimp on 1/4" BSP fittings for the oiler. The water trap will go on the other end of the hose which is behind the bulkhead. For the time being i'm going to try without a cooler. I did contemplate taking the suction from the oil catch tank. But one of the reasons this wouldn't be possible is i run a check valve in the top of it so that when i roll I don't suck oil into the engine. There will be a check valve and relief valve on the pipework at the tank as well as the pressure switch (the ARB one). This switch i'll use to control both compressors - the air con and 12v. With seperate on/off switches for each. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I used one of the standard black box switches with the red button as they have the line discharge function built in so that your pumps not trying to start against pressure. Don't know if its needed on these pumps but it was already on the tank so who not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Had it running yesterday. A whole lot quicker than the ARB pump and pretty quiet to. The back of the pump does get warm but it didn't feel that warm at the tank. There's a 4 metre hose in between. The cones / JIC sealed ok No oiler yet. Starting against pressure wasn't a problem. But there is a check valve at the tank, so chances are that some of the pressure leaked back through the compressor after it last shut down ? I cracked the hose at one point and didn't seem to have any pressure hence thinking it's blead off. It doesn't seem to affect the engines power, but i've only run it in the workshop. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Normally an aircon pump will leak pressure hence the check valve in the line to the tank, as you say starting up first time it is unlikely to be against pressure. As it cuts in and out topping up the tank whilst using air it will be but I have never had a problem. If the aircon pump isn't actively pressureing up the system it should have no effect on the power from the engine as without the electro magnetic clutch engaged it will basiclly just be running on a bearing. Even with the pump engaged the effect on a V8 is unlikely to be noticable. As you are going to be using it in pretty severe off road conditions, worth think about where the air intake is coming from as well, sucking in water and mud or even excess dust is not likely to do it any favours. Not sure what else you have plumbed in beside the diff locks but one or even two (one at the front of the vehicle?) air line points are worth considering, manual shut off valves are worth fitting next to any airline take offs as these often leak slowly. not enough to effect a workshop setup but enough to be irritating on a vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Agree with the above. My inlet comes from somewhere out of the way. This is one of the reasons i think my 12v one packed up, the intake was pretty dirty. On the next one i'm going to put end caps on which then have a supply pipe from somewhere clean. I've got 5 air rams which all have pressure on them regardless of position as well as both diff locks. Was going to pump up a 37" tyre today but forgot G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 What do your 5 Air Rams connect to? Sounds interesting!? I tool my inlet from a port on the engine air filter. There was a tube which stuck out of the filter can with a rubber cover blocking it. Just plumbed that to the inlet. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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