Forward-facing load area seats that won't break the bank?

[Matthew L]

Good morning, all. I have been reading up in this forum and elsewhere and, while I purchased by 2005 Defender TD5 wagon in part because of the nine seats (Mom, Dad, 3 kids, 2 in-laws already make 7), I am worried that the side-facing rear seats with lap belts are not especially safe. I was planning to replace the lap belts with retracting ones in any case, but now I am considering other options.

The ExMoor lock-and-fold seats look great but at £500 each (and then I have to get them to Kenya) that's just not an option. Are there no less-expensive options, for example, for a single fold-and-stow rear bench like this one for a Toyota FJ40? That particular one does not seem to work as it requires 40" width between the wheel wells and I think the Defenders have only 34" down the middle, but perhaps there is a way to fit it on top of the side frames?

On a related note, does anyone know an easy way to replace the center rear non-retractable lap belt with a retractable three-point belt? Perhaps something that can clip in or out of a roof fitting to allow the seat to fold like on many modern SUVs?

Cheers,

Matthew

PS--Doing more research on the Bestop seats for Jeep I found that the there is a model http://www.bestop.co...w=product&id=92 intended for older 1955-1995 CJ and Wrangler jeeps which is much narrower. Width appears to be 35" which migh just work. Installation instructions here. What does everyone think?

[mickeyw]

Hi Matthew,

I understand your reasons for wanting to change your seating, but bear in mind that if you change the side facing seats to forward facing, you will only get 2 seats in the back, not 4. This means you will then have a 7-seater, which I see will suit you for now...

To change the second row centre seat belt to a full 3-point belt, you could fit the seats from a later model Ford-engined Defender, as they do have this feature. I doubt this will be a cheap option.

I am not aware of any retro fit kits to achieve this requirement.

[Matthew L]

Thanks, Michael. Yes, I do understand about the loss of two seats, but I can't actually see many situations in which I would need those other two seats. I have not made a final decision, though, as on the one hand speeds are generally pretty low here in Kenya because roads are bad, but on the other hand accident rates are pretty high.

On the center seat belt, I did find this one -- 3 Point Centre Seat Belt -- but my aviation background says that shoulder belts should NEVER be angled down like that as it would put compression on ths spine in an accident. It also does not seem to detach easily so it would make folding the seat difficult.

[Big.Mike]

On the center seat belt, I did find this one -- 3 Point Centre Seat Belt -- but my aviation background says that shoulder belts should NEVER be angled down like that as it would put compression on ths spine in an accident. It also does not seem to detach easily so it would make folding the seat difficult.

Hi Matthew,

I'm going through the exact same thing right now.

I'm in the process of installing these exact three point seat belts for the kids. I take your point about the spine compression, if the child's shoulder is below the top of the seat, doesn't this concern go?

As for the load space seats, I've settled on 4 strips of 1 metre lengths of unwin tracking with 4 brand new seat clamps 2 per seat. (Both bought from Mud Stuff).

On top of these I've got seatbelt and seats combined from a minibus:

Theoretically this setup should allow my seats to be rated thus:

"Successfully tested at MIRA, TUV and Status to M1 on single seat of up to 33kg and M2 on double seat, the Unwin seat fixture meets requirements of ECE regulation 14 and EU directives 76/115."

The points I'm concerned about are:

• The strength of the floor.
  
• Removing the diesel tank to run the strip below
  
• The clearance between the tank and the load space floor.
  
• Clearing the chassis.
  

Unwin make spreader plates with will help with floor strength concerns.

This has cost me £150 in total so far as I picked up the seats from a friend who is doing a camping conversion with an old minibus. The seats are in reasonable condition and the seatbelts are like new (they are not mandatory in the UK on a minibus and don't look like they have ever been used)

Cheers,

Mike

[Matthew L]

I'm in the process of installing these exact three point seat belts for the kids. I take your point about the spine compression, if the child's shoulder is below the top of the seat, doesn't this concern go?

Yes, as long as it's the seat that takes the compression, not the person, then you should be OK. If the minibus seats, then I imagine that's why they are high back seats in the first place, to keep the upward angle to the shoulder belt. A small downward angle is fine, but any more causes spinal injuries. Here's a reference sheet for racing that recommends 0 to -20 degrees, with -10 degrees optimum but note that this describes seats already reclined by 25 degrees.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/SeatbeltGuide06-05-12.pdf

[JeffR]

Thanks, Michael. Yes, I do understand about the loss of two seats, but I can't actually see many situations in which I would need those other two seats. I have not made a final decision, though, as on the one hand speeds are generally pretty low here in Kenya because roads are bad, but on the other hand accident rates are pretty high.

On the center seat belt, I did find this one -- 3 Point Centre Seat Belt -- but my aviation background says that shoulder belts should NEVER be angled down like that as it would put compression on ths spine in an accident. It also does not seem to detach easily so it would make folding the seat difficult.

I've got one of them in the garage, it's a waste of space!

[Snagger]

I have a pair of Exmoor Trim Trakkers. They're much cheaper than their lock and fold seats and work well if you set the seat belts up correctly (not as per their instructions or adverts, where the shoulder point is much too low). I removed them to fit storage lockers; if you're interested, I'd take £200 for the pair, including seat belts. They're not perfect, but apart from some blackening of they grey vinyl on the outboard sides from being folded up against rubber matting on the wheel arches, they in good order and have had very little use (padding and fabric are mint). I think the seats are about £200 each new now, and the seat belts cost about £80 too.

You can see what they look like and how I fitted them on my blog in the interior section.

[russianfrog]

Hi there,

I am also considering adding two extra rear seats to my Defender 110 of 2007. Now that I have been looking for information here and there, I understand why the metal shoulders in the boot aren't flat!

Among the options, changing the Defender for a Discovery would be worth a try but the cost, of course, isn't the same! With this in perspective, purchasing news seats becomes realistic, even if expensive.

Now, as a basis for comparison, does anyone know the price for the official rear forward facing seats with seat belts proposed by LR? or at least their part number?

As for the spine compression thing, simply move the kids to the middle row, and propose the rear ones to the mother in law

[Big.Mike]

Hi there,

I am also considering adding two extra rear seats to my Defender 110 of 2007. Now that I have been looking for information here and there, I understand why the metal shoulders in the boot aren't flat!

Among the options, changing the Defender for a Discovery would be worth a try but the cost, of course, isn't the same! With this in perspective, purchasing news seats becomes realistic, even if expensive.

Now, as a basis for comparison, does anyone know the price for the official rear forward facing seats with seat belts proposed by LR? or at least their part number?

As for the spine compression thing, simply move the kids to the middle row, and propose the rear ones to the mother in law

Equicar on ebay were selling some for about 600 quid the pair, which is actually quite reasonable considering... You're lucky that the 2007 version will take them easily... If it was easy to change the wheel arches on my 110 it's the route I'd take.