Axle question.

[Snagger]

235438 replaces the newer 532979 on the transfer box main shaft, and 521330 replaces the later 533080 intermediate cluster. More here: http://www.nickslandrover.co.uk/axle-swap-transfer-box-gear-change/ and http://www.nickslandrover.co.uk/new-lows/

The gears cost me £80 inclusive of postage and VAT, and they're genuine. The prices may have gone up a little since.

[Scooby Jim]

It's very unlikely that you have the SII suffix B transfer box - not that many were made. Suffix C is the same as all the later SII and SIII units (except 1-ton models). Suffix A had a smaller diameter shaft through the intermediate cluster, so they wouldn't fit anyway.

Where could I find that info on my gearbox?? As I want to know as much as I can about the vehicle. I had NO history with the Landy, and even the engine capacity is different to how it was listed lol. I was told it was ex RAF as most panels are yellow under 20 layers of additional paint, but who knows lol.

Got ya!

I would seriously think about doing what I did, remove the front prop, and swap the rear diff for a 3.54 ratio one before making any firm decisions, unless you really really want to fit a Salisbury, which I'm not decrying. See how the V8 performs, up and down hill, and see whether it takes to having the lower ratio diff. It'll take you about 4 hours to do on your own. You need new prop shaft nuts for refitting the rear prop (which you don't need to take off the handbrake end by the way), and liquid gasket for fitting the new diff, and refitting the drive flanges...for the sake of about 5 quid, I'd get some new drive flange bolts too, I noticed mine were a bit ropy when I took them out at Christmas.

If the V8 doesn't like it, which I'd be very surprised at, you can either swap the diff back, and I guarantee you'll find a buyer for it, or go for the Salisbury swap.

If it does like it, then swap the front aswell, refit the front prop, and try it off road. I'll wager you'll be happy with the performance of 3.54 diffs with the V8.

Note! Don't refit the front prop until both front and rear diffs are the same ratio! Things will be destroyed!

Tbh from a bit of reading around the 3.54 diffs sound the better plan. I have not driven the vehicle yet, and my last experience of Series Land Rovers is in the passenger seat of a 2.25 Petrol aged 9. So either way its not as if I'm going to really notice which ever way I go as its completely new to me. It would only be from driving another that I'd get the differences, as mine would be normal to me (if you understand) as I know no different.

I am eventually going to get an Overdrive, as the extra lever and the cruising ability would be welcomed. Last vehicle I drove with an over drive was a Triumph Dolomite Sprint with the over drive switch on the gear lever, and its great when mates laughed and said its only a 4-speed I could say NO its an 8 speed and they wouldn't understand.

Off road I don't think there would be much issues anyway, as the diff ratios aren't that far out esp at low ratio, and the grunt from the V8 should overcome the difference, just means I need to keep a supply of half shafts

[Snagger]

The 88 is already an 8-speed, and fitting an overdrive will make it 16. It gives you 4 reverse ratios too, but include high 4wd and it gives 24 forward gear combinations and six reverse!

The 3.54 diffs should cope amply with the V8 - the diffs are stronger than the 4.71s as the crown wheel is thicker and flexes less, so doesn't strip teeth like the 4.71s can under heavy load. It's the half shafts that are the weak link in a Rover rear axle, though, so exercise mechanical sympathy with the pedals. There's no need to remove the front prop if you try modifying just the rear axle first as Parrot suggested (not a bad idea, as it saves on cost initially and the rear axle is simple to do, while the front is a bit more complex because you have to remove the swivels, which involves disconnecting the steering rods and brake lines). Just make sure you don't engage 4wd while the diffs are mismatched or you'll break something expensive; put a label on the red and yellow levers or cover them with a rag - anything to act as an easy reminder.

3.54 diffs will reduce the torque through the half shafts compared to 4.71s, but not enough to protect them from a V8 if driven clumsily, so a pair of uprated shafts would be beneficial if you are going trialing. Otherwise, standard shafts should cope, but a couple of spares, or at least a spared for the right hand side (short side), which is the one most likely to fail, would be worth keeping handy. The increase in gearing won't be a problem for climbs with the V8 - the problem, as Fridge and I have tried to allude to, is descents, where the gearing will reduce engine braking effectiveness (pedal braking is a bad thing as it encourages a skid and subsequent loss of control on slippery surfaces). This can be helped by those low ratio gears and very judicious use of the hand brake.

[Scooby Jim]

The 88 is already an 8-speed, and fitting an overdrive will make it 16. It gives you 4 reverse ratios too, but include high 4wd and it gives 24 forward gear combinations and six reverse!

The 3.54 diffs should cope amply with the V8 - the diffs are stronger than the 4.71s as the crown wheel is thicker and flexes less, so doesn't strip teeth like the 4.71s can under heavy load. It's the half shafts that are the weak link in a Rover rear axle, though, so exercise mechanical sympathy with the pedals. There's no need to remove the front prop if you try modifying just the rear axle first as Parrot suggested (not a bad idea, as it saves on cost initially and the rear axle is simple to do, while the front is a bit more complex because you have to remove the swivels, which involves disconnecting the steering rods and brake lines). Just make sure you don't engage 4wd while the diffs are mismatched or you'll break something expensive; put a label on the red and yellow levers or cover them with a rag - anything to act as an easy reminder.

3.54 diffs will reduce the torque through the half shafts compared to 4.71s, but not enough to protect them from a V8 if driven clumsily, so a pair of uprated shafts would be beneficial if you are going trialing. Otherwise, standard shafts should cope, but a couple of spares, or at least a spared for the right hand side (short side), which is the one most likely to fail, would be worth keeping handy. The increase in gearing won't be a problem for climbs with the V8 - the problem, as Fridge and I have tried to allude to, is descents, where the gearing will reduce engine braking effectiveness (pedal braking is a bad thing as it encourages a skid and subsequent loss of control on slippery surfaces). This can be helped by those low ratio gears and very judicious use of the hand brake.

Thanks for that, made my mind up for me now as Guess what?? My front half shaft is fubar, and has to be replaced, and due to the broken bit usually jamming in the diff that has to come out anyway. So may as well as its coming apart change to the 3.54 diffs.

[Scooby Jim]

Anyone know how much a rear Salisbury axle is worth???

Got a rear with the job lot of brakes I just bought, as its cheaper to leave the brakes on for me to remove.
So would be a L reg 1973 109 Salisbury axle, complete and working, minus the brake drums and backing plate??

Managed to get the front brakes, with rear brakes on the Salisbury axle, with single line servo and master cylinder, and a replacement front apron. As a job lot. He's having my spare front axle minus the shafts, as I don`t need it, would leave just the diffs to sort from a Disco.

What Disco diffs do I need, what year?? Would they be 200tdi/300tdi?? As he's stripping a few discos too.

So may get those off him if I can get them cheap enough.

[Snagger]

I sold one last week for £50, and it was in top condition. To be honest, I think it was worth more than twice that, but I was fed up with it taking up space in the garage. I'd say £50 without brakes, but you might have to wait a while to find a buyer.

The diffs need to come from a 200Tdi vehicle, but I think they may have gone over to 24 spline before the 300Tdi changeover. The front and rear diffs are identical, so you can pull a single half shaft from a rear axle by undoing just five bolts to count the splines on the duff end of the shaft - if it has ten splines, then pull the diff and check it over carefully. Soaking in a big tub of diesel, petrol, parafin etc will clean it up for inspection of the innards.

[Scooby Jim]

Well if someone wants one let me know as I'll be collecting it tomorrow, or in a couple of days.

[FridgeFreezer]

Any coiler rover-type diff that's 10-spline should do you, so that's anything up to the 200TDi-era (or thereabouts) as Snagger says.

Two easy checks: count the splines where the halfshaft goes into the diff, and check that you end up with at least the correct number of filler & drain holes as it's possible to end up with a diff you can't fill (or is it drain, I forget...). Aside from that, a 10spline diff should be about £40 in good nick.

[Scooby Jim]

Any coiler rover-type diff that's 10-spline should do you, so that's anything up to the 200TDi-era (or thereabouts) as Snagger says.

Two easy checks: count the splines where the halfshaft goes into the diff, and check that you end up with at least the correct number of filler & drain holes as it's possible to end up with a diff you can't fill (or is it drain, I forget...). Aside from that, a 10spline diff should be about £40 in good nick.

Cheers bud.

Just need to shift this axle, or do I tell the guy to just take the brakes off?? lol.

[ejparrott]

'93 sticks in my mind as the year discos went to 24-spline....don't know why......

[Phil Hancock]

It was after the hubs changed to the thinner type with the flat flanges.

[Snagger]

That's a point, Phil. 300Tdi vehicles mostly had more rationalised axles with the thinner drive flanges and a smaller plastic centre cap on front and Salisbury rear and flattish flanges with no cap on Rover rear axles, while the older axles on RRC and Discovery had domed solid flanges with integrated shafts (ie shaft and flange were one piece). I would suspect that all the axles which had these earlier domed flanges has 10 spline diffs, but it would still be worth pulling a single shaft to check the diff end of it to count the splines - you'll have to remove the shafts to pull the diff anyway, and it's only five bolts to undo. I think the Rover axles with the thick flanges and big plastic cones (nearly the same size as Series metal cones) will also have 10 spline diffs, but am less certain of it.

If you have the choice, go for rear diffs - not only are they easier to remove (you don't have so much to strip to get the shafts out), but they will have driven the correct way - LR front diffs are identical to the rear diffs, which mean they are working in reverse, which increases their wear and chipping. Given that RRCs and Discoverys are permanent 4wd, the loads and forces applied to front and rear diffs will have been equal - it's not like buying second hand Series diffs, where the front diff has spent most of its life idling.

Fridge mentions to check for the filler plug. Most Series diffs were filled by plugs on the diff case nose, but went over to plugs in the diff pan (domed face of the axle casing) when they rationalised the axles in 1980. Those diffs had no plug in the diff casing. I think it's unlikely that any Discovery diff would have a filler plug in its casing as they only entered production in 1989. Check your existing axles for where you fill up - if it's in the diff case rather than the pan, then you have the additional complication of finding older RRC diffs that have diff plug or adding a filler plug to your axle case.

You could make that filler mod by drilling a large hole in the correct spot and welding on a threaded collar for a plug or even a very large nut with a suitable (and short) bolt with a copper washer - it doesn't have to match the LR plugs after all, it just has to allow you to insert an oil pump hose or the neck of a 1L oil bottle. Better still would be to remove the diff pans (especially if rusty) and fit the aftermarket HD pans which are heavily reinforced to avoid the need for diff guards for serious off roaders (diff guards are prone to holding mud and water, accelerating rusting of the standard diff pan).

You could get away without the filler plug at all by jacking up a wheel and removing a half shaft to pour a measured amount of oil in through the stub axle, but you will have no easy method to check levels and I suspect this method of filling would get tiresome very quickly. Some may argue that if you have no evidence of oil leaks, checking levels should not be required. Generally true, but driving in very wet conditions will wash oil away, hiding any leaks. It is an option, though.

[Scooby Jim]

Right these are the Axles I have fitted at the moment.

Front.

Rear.

And here is what I picked up today.

[ejparrott]

Thats a rover front axle, and what looks like a strengthened rover rear axle.....not sure if thats a military thing. My 109 has a strengthened military front axle, but has a salisbury rear anyway. Front swivels look like wide 6-cyl ones, and theres what looks like a 10" SLS backplate on top fo the stack there.

[Snagger]

I think that stiffening on the rear axle was pretty common on SIIs, but not SIIIs. The front axle has a filler in the pan, so any 10 spline diff will be feady to go straight in, but the rear diff is filled by a diff case plug as there is no plug in the pan. Looks like you have a bit of welding ahead of you, though you could swap the internals of a 3.54 to the casing in the diff if you're feeling bold...

[Scooby Jim]

Thats a rover front axle, and what looks like a strengthened rover rear axle.....not sure if thats a military thing. My 109 has a strengthened military front axle, but has a salisbury rear anyway. Front swivels look like wide 6-cyl ones, and theres what looks like a 10" SLS backplate on top fo the stack there.

God knows as I know nothing as to the origin of this vehicle.

They are 11 inch back plates and rear brakes, they came off the Salisbury axle. They are the same size as the 11 inch front TLS brakes that are on the fronts.

Just two quick questions, roughly how much should I have paid for the above?

And where can I get a vacuum feed for the servo when fitted from the 3.5 V8 with twin SU carbs??

[Scooby Jim]

I think that stiffening on the rear axle was pretty common on SIIs, but not SIIIs. The front axle has a filler in the pan, so any 10 spline diff will be feady to go straight in, but the rear diff is filled by a diff case plug as there is no plug in the pan. Looks like you have a bit of welding ahead of you, though you could swap the internals of a 3.54 to the casing in the diff if you're feeling bold...

Well it may be because mine is a 1972 (Early) and apparently an Ex RAF vehicle (although can find no id), so may have had a change at some time from parts in the stockpile???

One word - rubbish. Can't be bothered welding, but if I do need it I have a mate who is a superb welder.

As for changing the diff casing from one to the other that sounds more of a plan!! Hmmmmmmmm INTERSTING.

[ejparrott]

Its covered in the manual, I've looked at it several times but never done it. I've always changed my diffs rather than repaired them - changing internals is not something I've ever considered

[Scooby Jim]

Its covered in the manual, I've looked at it several times but never done it. I've always changed my diffs rather than repaired them - changing internals is not something I've ever considered

Done it on my rear diff with an impreza, or push comes to shove take it to a gearbox place and say I want these insides, in that case.

Just need to find where I can get a brake servo feed from the V8 inlet manifold, I know the location it uses, but not the part number for it.

[Phil Hancock]

I would say the existing diffs fitted are imperial so swapping the 3.54 innards over wont work as they would be metric.

The front brakes are indeed 3" wode jobbies.

The SLS brake in the stack is an 11".

[Scooby Jim]

I would say the existing diffs fitted are imperial so swapping the 3.54 innards over wont work as they would be metric.

The front brakes are indeed 3" wode jobbies.

The SLS brake in the stack is an 11".

So do you think I had a good buy?? Paid £50 for the lot.

[Phil Hancock]

Yes if the front brake drums are in good condition.

[Scooby Jim]

Yes if the front brake drums are in good condition.

Well I will be getting new drums and shoes, as I only really needed the backing plates, so new cylinders, and master cylinder.

I know its daft buying parts you'll never use, but I'll need the originals for mocking up before I get the new parts.

[Scooby Jim]

The front brakes are indeed 3" wode jobbies.

The SLS brake in the stack is an 11".

Not that I thought you were wrong, I just went out and measured the fronts and here is the outside of the drum.

[ejparrott]

There's a give away, the drums are all but square on the outer corners. 4-cylinder drums have something like a 30degree chamfer on the outer corner, something like an inch across, and much narrower shoes.