Innovate fitted now what

[mikec]

dont know why its posted two logs but there the same

[TheRecklessEngineer]

The good news is that TPSacc is behaving itself in that last log.

It seems IdleDC is all over the place - this is the signal to the PWM valve.

Do as Nige suggested earlier. Unplug it and blank off the pipe to the plenum. A big bolt/bit of tube with the end squashed normally works well.

[mikec]

The good news is that TPSacc is behaving itself in that last log.

It seems IdleDC is all over the place - this is the signal to the PWM valve.

Do as Nige suggested earlier. Unplug it and blank off the pipe to the plenum. A big bolt/bit of tube with the end squashed normally works well.

I've only ever had pwm connected at the very start if the installation, its always been blanked off and in plugged since.

That's good news about the tps then

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Jolly good.

In that case, the hardware is looking good and the movement of idleDC is probably trying to correct the hunting.

We're now into the realm of checking that what MS is seeing (and assuming) is actually accurate. Like trigger wheel position, fuel pressure, etc etc.

This is not my area of expertise, so I'll let Nige point you in the right direction.

[mikec]

Jolly good.

In that case, the hardware is looking good and the movement of idleDC is probably trying to correct the hunting.

We're now into the realm of checking that what MS is seeing (and assuming) is actually accurate. Like trigger wheel position, fuel pressure, etc etc.

This is not my area of expertise, so I'll let Nige point you in the right direction.

Thanks for your help James, much appreciated

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

He has a "to Do" list

Nige

[mikec]

He has a "to Do" list

Nige

Done the to-do list, look on last page Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Ah !]

Well, the tickover isn't that bad at all !

But,

First open the MSQ and go to More Steerings > Idle control and look at the value in slow warm idle speed RPM

Should be prob anything from 840 - 880

This is the RPM that MS is going to try to tickover at, this is the electontic side of tickover

Now, when warm look at the RPM Guage, what is the highest value it hunts up to and the lowest it drops down to

Report back and then we can look to tweak

Nige

[mikec]

Ah !]

Well, the tickover isn't that bad at all !

But,

First open the MSQ and go to More Steerings > Idle control and look at the value in slow warm idle speed RPM

Should be prob anything from 840 - 880

This is the RPM that MS is going to try to tickover at, this is the electontic side of tickover

Now, when warm look at the RPM Guage, what is the highest value it hunts up to and the lowest it drops down to

Report back and then we can look to tweak

Nige

Ok slow warm idle speed is 830.

Idle difficult to say exactly but I'd say about 750 maybe 770 down to about 580. The figures move so fast its hard to say

[mikec]

Ah just thought do a datalog on it idling and see what mt says, so

Max idle was 770

Min idle was 521

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right

If you are SURE you have bno air leaks ............ SURE ? spray wd40 around the bay and if the revs rise you have a leak .....

So, if you aresure

By the plenum air entry on the top near the butterfly there is a hole, sometimes this is blanked off, remove the blanksing plug, peer in and you will

see a allen key, pop the right size in AND WITH THE ENGINE WARM turn the screw 1st one way and then another, this sets the butterfly position, and you SHOULD be

able to make the difference between 521-770 less, to be honest 770 is to low for tickover so am expecting as you turn the key the revs will rise and then

move up and down LESS.

Once you have got the position of the plenum screw to give the best result of a more solid tick over around 800-800 then do a new pic of the VE and the Spark

tables showing where is moving in and out of, and also what the new lowest and highest RPM moves are on tickover.

then report back

[mikec]

Right

If you are SURE you have bno air leaks ............ SURE ? spray wd40 around the bay and if the revs rise you have a leak .....

So, if you aresure

By the plenum air entry on the top near the butterfly there is a hole, sometimes this is blanked off, remove the blanksing plug, peer in and you will

see a allen key, pop the right size in AND WITH THE ENGINE WARM turn the screw 1st one way and then another, this sets the butterfly position, and you SHOULD be

able to make the difference between 521-770 less, to be honest 770 is to low for tickover so am expecting as you turn the key the revs will rise and then

move up and down LESS.

Once you have got the position of the plenum screw to give the best result of a more solid tick over around 800-800 then do a new pic of the VE and the Spark

tables showing where is moving in and out of, and also what the new lowest and highest RPM moves are on tickover.

then report back

I'm as sure as I can be, when I originally had the hunting it was much worse than this, I ended up stripping the whole top end, new inlet gasket, rtv, on every mating surface etc. sprayed enough wd40 on it, it'll never rust again! BUT I'm gonna give it another go just in case!

[Bowie69]

Just double check the little hose off the back of the plenum to fuel pressure regulator... very easily missed

[mikec]

Ok just turned the idle up but its just doing the same further up the rev range so I'm now on 666!!! And 914 as highs and lows.

[mikec]

Oh checked that pipe too, seems ok.

Checked timing again, as I've said before the 3.9 serp is a pig to see but its roughly at 11/12 btdc

Tables

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/little_landy/FC02740D-2F88-4CDD-8E94-6A5D9F28AE97-19162-00000E7CCB0FBE36.mp4

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/little_landy/D440B2DB-6B0D-40AF-9878-587B43939DA8-19162-00000E7EA78C9226.mp4

Stayed loads of wd40 everywhere, so much so I had a pool of it in the valley gasket.

Nothing seems to show up

[Mr Noisy]

Stick your hand over the inlet and see if it stalls/listen for vacuum leaks

Should be able to stall it with your hand and hold very good vacuum until you pull hand off, if hand doesn't get stuck on you have a leak

[mikec]

Stick your hand over the inlet and see if it stalls/listen for vacuum leaks

Should be able to stall it with your hand and hold very good vacuum until you pull hand off, if hand doesn't get stuck on you have a leak

Ok just tried that, it sucks my hand on but doesn't stall the engine. So are you saying it should stall or that it should just suck my hand?

Also at idle all the air seems to be going through the pipe on the right of the intake, it must t off somewhere inside the casting as the other end where pwm goes is blanked. I presume this is normal.

[mikec]

Just noticed some oil in the intake to the plenum too, seems to be coming through from the rocker breather possibly.

[Mr Noisy]

Well I doubted myself after I posted this, because of course it could run off the air through the breathers, potentially!

The only way into the crankcase is through rocker breather, the flat topped rockers have the breather left side rear, the little mushroom chap, not sure about old rover type.

Are your breathers set up correctly for a Hotwire system on those old rocker covers?

[Mr Noisy]

Really we could do with a meet up to have a look about if you can't find this problem!

[mikec]

Well it's sort if setup for the Hotwire breathers. At the minute one of the breathers is connected as per Hotwire, but the other side goes to atmosphere at the minute.

Ill have a play with blocking breathers etc. see what happens. Can't be any worse

[mikec]

Well it stalls doing the above and crushing the rocker breather tube. So that must be a good sign!

[Bowie69]

Ah... right, engine breather, this is quite possibly where your issue is.

What rocker/breather setup do you have? Pics required really...

Are you using the correct t-piece with restrictor in it?

Is the mushroom in place (if you have this style), and filter fitted?

It should stall with the inlet blanked off, if your hand hurts, try something flat on it, the vacuum is very strong...

[mikec]

Have been through this before with it though, yep correct t piece etc. it's a little bodged obviously cos the rocker is different.

The other cover just goes to atmosphere, but doesn't make any difference wether its blocked off or not.

Its drawing it all through the rocker breather when the intakes blocked, when I clamp that it stalks then.

[Mr Noisy]

Pretty sure the large pipe from the T piece to the TB is before the throttle flap so shouldn't be a problem anyway, and the system is set up to draw the correct amount through the small part of the t piece

UNLESS the large part is after the throttle flap in which case the lack of mushroom restrictor means that there is far too much air getting in to the inlet.

Could be the issue.