Innovate fitted now what

[mikec]

Ok just had a quick drive, no different to drive still kangoorooimg.

So I decided to put in the old msq, the one I posted up here. It's far better to drive. Although it doesn't pick up off the throttle perfectly it doesn't start kangorooing. Ill fit a new gasket tomos. And not use any rtv and see how that goes! I'm away in it at the weekend so hopefully that sorts it

Just to add, I'm not suggesting that msq is right, just wondering why that msq drives better. Is it just masking other fault(s)?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=26860

[mikec]

Inlet manifold gasket fitted, and no bloody difference, gutted, had high hopes for that too. So here I am back at square one.

When you read this Nige it seems to run better on the original map you sent me than the one you sent me last week, well it kangaroos a little less anyway, wether that makes a difference to anything I'm not sure but thought I'd mention it.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Inlet manifold gasket fitted, and no bloody difference, gutted, had high hopes for that too. So here I am back at square one.

When you read this Nige it seems to run better on the original map you sent me than the one you sent me last week, well it kangaroos a little less anyway, wether that makes a difference to anything I'm not sure but thought I'd mention it.

You're not at square one, you've repaired the TPS, and eliminated an air leak.

That might not have an immediate impact on the problem your having, but you are repairing problems with your setup - necessary if you're going to nail it!

Elimination, one step at a time progress. That's how you get these tricky problems.

I once spent two weeks persuading a satellite dome back into life. The problem turned out to be an intermittent connection on a gyroscope sensor. Only by eliminating one thing at a time did I find it. But find it I did, where 3 others over the course of 2 years had failed.

[mikec]

You're not at square one, you've repaired the TPS, and eliminated an air leak.

That might not have an immediate impact on the problem your having, but you are repairing problems with your setup - necessary if you're going to nail it!

Elimination, one step at a time progress. That's how you get these tricky problems.

I once spent two weeks persuading a satellite dome back into life. The problem turned out to be an intermittent connection on a gyroscope sensor. Only by eliminating one thing at a time did I find it. But find it I did, where 3 others over the course of 2 years had failed.

Yeah I was just peed of when I got in last night. Back out today, see if I missed anything last night.

[mikec]

On a side note I did notice that the old britpart gasket didn't seem to have any identifying mark for which way round it went. The new bearmach one had the bolt hole cut out

[Mr Noisy]

The gaskets are often not handed, but the better ones are.

I dont honestly think it makes any difference.

What baffles me with this is that you definitely definitely definitely, know for a fact for sure definitely have an air leak and yet it cant be found.

What about runnthe engine up, hand over the intake, rev it up as best you can and then shut it off, that might give a decent amount of vacuum for you to be able to trace the hissing sound?

[mikec]

I don't know if it is still leaking or not now mate, but it still hunts and still kango orris, gonna do I ve/spark pic in a bit Nige hopefully will be able to suggest new values for the idle.

[Bowie69]

What did you seal the plenum with?

Hold a smoking piece of paper with the engine running and see if the inlet manifold is seating properly, it will suck the smoke in if not, then check everywhere else with the same technique.

You'll probably want to remove/disable the engine fan when doing this

[Mr Noisy]

but if it runs with hand over intake there is a problem, if it doesnt there is not!

[Bowie69]

'if not' was just referring to the inlet manifold

'if not' then it is elsewhere.

[mikec]

No it stops when I put my hand over the inlet but it still hunts.

Spoke to Nige earlier he's gonna sort the ve/spark cells at idle out for me.

[Bowie69]

Oh, how did I miss that Can't see it on this page, oh well

If it stops then well done

[mikec]

Finally got prune to a vid

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/little_landy/8AF50951-D8F6-4472-A308-3CC6494F0161-22090-0000102D4331BDED.mp4

And

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f257/little_landy/AB866EFD-473F-48C1-B678-6DE085EF7C80-22090-0000102DDB30CBC3.mp4

Cheers guys

[mikec]

Oh, how did I miss that Can't see it on this page, oh well

If it stops then well done

Haha. Hope I get it sorted now. Off roading this weekend hopefully so fingers crossed

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

OK

You didn't say what the variance was on the RPM ?
Also you haven't confirmed you have played with the plenum screw and got the RPM to around 880 mark ?

But if you HAVE

Fuel Cells

Change the values in the 4 cells boxed to "45", then click on save and close MT down and reload

Check the 4 x cells have defo changed to 45 in each

Spark

Chnage the values in the 4 cells marked to "10"

File > Save

and then close and reopen MT and check both spark and fuel are loaded correctly with 45 and 10

Now run engine check both tables confirm that if the cell idicator moves it styas with the 4 boxes on BOTH screens ?

Report back

Nige

[mikec]

OK

You didn't say what the variance was on the RPM ?

Also you haven't confirmed you have played with the plenum screw and got the RPM to around 880 mark ?

But if you HAVE

Fuel Cells

[img=http://forums.lr4x4.com/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] Fuel.JPG

Change the values in the 4 cells boxed to "45", then click on save and close MT down and reload

Check the 4 x cells have defo changed to 45 in each

Spark

[img=http://forums.lr4x4.com/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] Spark.JPG

Chnage the values in the 4 cells marked to "10"

File > Save

and then close and reopen MT and check both spark and fuel are loaded correctly with 45 and 10

Now run engine check both tables confirm that if the cell idicator moves it styas with the 4 boxes on BOTH screens ?

Report back

Nige

Ok put those values in idle seems to have reduced now, averaging about 780-800ish but range of 674-850. So I'm gonna adjust that idle screw a bit more and try to up it a bit. Still having the same problems as before driving wise, hunting etc but I'd say the hunting was less.

On a positive note I've just done an mpg test, and got just under 13mpg. Hopefully that'll improve a bit but if I get that when its lpg'd ill be well happy.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

ARGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND WHERE ARE THE CELLS NOW on tickover, is tickover STILL IN THE 4 cells of each.

Need the excat info back Mike, missing stuff doesn't help, if its moving outside the cells then its now worked, and has to be sorted.

If you alter the plenum you will almost certainly move the cells visit locations, then we don't know if the cells visited are due to tuning VE table or you fiddling with the plenum

ONE STEP AT A TIME, slowly slowly and fully checked....

Otherwise its like 3 people trying to level a 3 legged stooll ...........all at the same time ..........

Nige

[mikec]

Ok yep it's still in the same cells on both spark and ve tables.

[mikec]

And I haven't touched the idle screw yet

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

OK

Write down the vlaues in the 4 x 2 blocks at the moment

Start with VE table

Chnage all 4 cells area by 5% less then 10% less then 15% then 20% - be amazed if it makes them wose, if so go +5% etrc

See if you can get it happy, then do the same in the spark area

try changing the VE more than the spark,

See which seems better and report back, be wary if the cells

visited move away from the 4 being fixed, if it visits outside cells change them to the same value as the other 4.

Report back - you should be able to get the tickover solider and have 4 cells max moving in and out of....

Try changing VE and spark in all sorts of combos, hence why you need to have the original values written down.

Then fine tune

You may say that with 9% off VE and 4% of spark its best and does x y z...play !

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

650-850 is still a vast movment, more than I would expect

I would still suggest you have an air leak / poor seal on trumpet to inlet / plenum to trumpet how did you afix them into place

air filter blocked / fuel filter part blocked / air leak / sotty plugs / weak throttle return spring (easy - put another spring on the

reurn lever / and another thing is to check the butterfly itself for loose screws allowing the circlualr disc to move...

I still think there is an issue with your engine and not the MS, we can ty but the range it too high IMHO and it should not be dropping to 680....

Have you done a test with the timing light vs Megasquirt ?

In answer to your Q when you called, if you find its rock solid tickover when you disconnect the MAT sensor its really simple, if disconnected the ECU belives its

in outer siberia, and the air temp is -40 degrees, and being cold RICHENS the mixture.

With a VE cell tickover bucket at 45, thats blusy rich already, 35 is often good, so, if your engine wnat MORE fuel, in simple terms it thinks its LEAN, which means either not enough fuel (pressure / blockages) or - more lilley too much AIR = A F LEAK !!

We will see from your fiddling efforts on the 8 cells, I suspect it may be worse with less fuel ^^^^

N

N

[elbekko]

Probably a daft question, but how sure are you about your lambda's after all that RTV? I'd try turning off lamba adaptivity and going for a drive...

[mikec]

650-850 is still a vast movment, more than I would expect

I would still suggest you have an air leak / poor seal on trumpet to inlet / plenum to trumpet how did you afix them into place

air filter blocked / fuel filter part blocked / air leak / sotty plugs / weak throttle return spring (easy - put another spring on the

reurn lever / and another thing is to check the butterfly itself for loose screws allowing the circlualr disc to move...

I still think there is an issue with your engine and not the MS, we can ty but the range it too high IMHO and it should not be dropping to 680....

Have you done a test with the timing light vs Megasquirt ?

In answer to your Q when you called, if you find its rock solid tickover when you disconnect the MAT sensor its really simple, if disconnected the ECU belives its

in outer siberia, and the air temp is -40 degrees, and being cold RICHENS the mixture.

With a VE cell tickover bucket at 45, thats blusy rich already, 35 is often good, so, if your engine wnat MORE fuel, in simple terms it thinks its LEAN, which means either not enough fuel (pressure / blockages) or - more lilley too much AIR = A F LEAK !!

We will see from your fiddling efforts on the 8 cells, I suspect it may be worse with less fuel ^^^^

N

N

Tested the timing on ms with a light and its near enough right, its hard to tell for sure but I'd say within a couple of degrees if it is at all out.

Sealed the trumpet base and plenum with some rtv.

It's a new air filter, and fuel filter but the fuel filter isn't a lr one, could it be not big enough? Would it be ok to run without for a short time to check? Or would that only affect high revs?

Throttle return spring, haven't got one to hand. possibly could be.

On the cable linkage there's a two pronged part that turns the actual butterfly spindle, is there a special way to set this up?

Think I'm gonna load my original setup while I'm in low box, as its just too uncontrollable, as is. Unless anyone can suggest a better temp solution??

[mikec]

Probably a daft question, but how sure are you about your lambda's after all that RTV? I'd try turning off lamba adaptivity and going for a drive...

Don't know mate to be honest, I'm not sure about anything to do with this engine yet :0

How is ego correction turned off again? Can't remember