Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Hi All, Here's a good one which is driving me and all the technical people I know nuts... The "new" engine on Daisy has got a "gappy" manifold, there is a gap here: Not a problem a little exhaust compound and it's sealed. The problem started a few months ago, there was a bit fluid coming out of this gap, washing the compound away, I thought it was coolant. It only happens after an 8+ mile run, then it's allowed to sit overnight. Then one day I created a massive white smoke cloud. Opened the bonnet and it was pouring out of the gap. So I had the head gasket changed. Still leaking fluid and occasionally blowing white smoke out of the back, I showed the guys working on her the problem and they thought it was diesel. They noticed that number one injector was wet when the gasket was changed, so the thought went, it must be leaking, welling up then un-burnt fuel is getting pushed into the exhaust manifold. No luck, it was still smoking and leaking. So all the injectors were changed, still no luck. Anyone seen this before, does anyone know what it is? Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Presumably theres two seperate issues here? One is your manifold is leaking. The other is the engines randomly producing white smoke and some sort of liquid? The fix for the manifold would surely be to simply replace it, or weld up the gap if you can get the weld to take on the cast iron. The smoke can then simply be looked at like any normal smoking issue. White smoke can be unburnt diesel, or it can be steam. What does it smell like? Have you tried to catch some of the liquid and sample it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 I'm not worried about the manifold, the exhaust paste worked fine until it was washed away... I don't know, what the smoke smells like. What does diesel smoke smell like? (I know coolant normally smells sweet). How can you sample the liquid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 White unburnt diesel smoke smells sort of diesely. More like neat diesel fuel than the typical diesel exhaust smell i guess. Put a cup under it? or soak it into a cloth? Then you can feel/smell it and see what it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 I suspect it's diesel, it felt like diesel to the touch and the cloud looked like this: Lets face it, if it's coolant then its a cracked head, and there weren't any obvious cracks... If it is diesel what could be causing it? As I said we've changed all of the injectors with known good ones, is there a way to adjust the amount of fuel pumped through the injectors or is there a valve or something that is allowing fuel to slip by? When you turn off the engine, I assume it starves the engine of diesel given there is no spark, could this be leaking? I should have mentioned it's an Ex-MOD engine, did they experiment with making Defenders put up smoke screens (joke). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 It can only really be injectors, pump timing, or something wrong with the IP itself, unless theres some sort of internal engine issue causing a loss of compression on a cylinder. Were the injectors actually reconditioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Yep, they were fresh as a daisy. What controls the pump timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 The timing belt, and the adjustment on the IP pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Can you tell it's out by taking the timing pulley cover off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 i think so; you need a flywheel locking pin, then with the flywheel locked at TDC you remove the wee access cover at the pump pulley and try to insert a pin (9.5mm drill works) into the slot on the pump. You may find for instance that the woodruff key on the crank pulley has worn out and is allowing the timing to change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 .... The fix for the manifold would surely be to simply replace it, or weld up the gap if you can get the weld to take on the cast iron. ... Those exhaust manifolds are a 3 part manifold with the 'Bull Horns' just held in by exhaust paste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 When checking the timing Mike you can as Aragorn suggests just use the flywheel locking pin and a 9.5mm pin through the FIP pulley, you don't need to remove the timing chest cover to do that, just the inspection plate that is in front of the FIP pulley. However that won't tell you if the camshaft pulley is one tooth out, you do have to remove the timing chest cover to do that, there is a dot on the camshaft pulley that should line up with an arrow inside the timing chest when the flywheel locking pin is in and the FIP 9.5mm pin is in. One more however though ....... if it is a timing problem wouldn't it show up consistently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 One more however though ....... if it is a timing problem wouldn't it show up consistently? Hmmm, doesn't it depend where the piston parks. As I understand it, there are 3 positions. The daft thing is, it runs really well, pulls easily and cruises at 70. Starting is no problem even after the cylinder is (apparently) full. Its only the smoke and leak that makes me question anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 It seems strange that the it is filling with diesel when off, the engine is stopped using the stop solenoid which stops fuel going into the injection pump so where is this fuel coming from? Can it come back from the leak off pipes perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Can it come back from the leak off pipes perhaps? Is there a non-return valve? Perhaps the gap in the manifold causes the fuel to be pulled into the cylinder... somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSD Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 After your 8+ mile run, loosen to coolant filler to bleed the pressure off, then see if it's any better in the mornings. If it is, get the head pressure tested. I reckon you'll find a crack from the coolant jacket to the #1 intake valve port. Mine was way down inside the port, and not visible once the pressure was released, but it could drop enough coolant on the back of the valve to cause hydraulic lock when cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 After your 8+ mile run, loosen to coolant filler to bleed the pressure off, then see if it's any better in the mornings.If it is, get the head pressure tested. I reckon you'll find a crack from the coolant jacket to the #1 intake valve port. Mine was way down inside the port, and not visible once the pressure was released, but it could drop enough coolant on the back of the valve to cause hydraulic lock when cranking. It doesn't ever have a problem cranking,,, ever, if it did we'd definatly do that. That's almost the issue, it's not presenting itself as a "normal" problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big.Mike Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 The fluid doesn't smell like pump diesel... It's smells like paraffin, a kind of metallic wiff... It's a bit oily. I tried to burn the paper towel and it didn't accelerate. Is diesel at all flammable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Diesel will burn but it needs to be hot. It wont go "whoomph" like petrol does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 If coolant has been inside the combustion chamber it will smell of diesel/oil for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yostumpy Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 has it started all of a sudden, ie after a fuel up, thinking contaminated fuel? If it was coolant , wouldn't it be bit milky looking. Have you checked the oil level? not burning its own oil via breather system, or sump filling up with deisel. If its a replaccement lump, as opposed to recon, if it had been run on Soya oil the rings might have gummed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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