Serious Series Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Is it not easier to clamp shoes and cylinders to gether with a strap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 That's my usual method, but it doesn't clamp the cylinders fully in, they're still out by 1/8" or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Sherpa vac pump looks very similiar to 200tdi. The drive coupling to the skew gear is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 The good news is the day dawned beautiful, so I'm good to have a right bash at it today. Something does seem to be happening...moved it round on the drive this morning to get it nose up and all on the concrete, and there is some braking there now...it feels almost as if the rear portion of the M/C isn't working, and thats where the freeplay feels. It does make me wonder if that's an indicator that the M/C is at fault, but then it goes solid under pressure from the Eazibleed....curious... I've got to nip to work and fetch the tyre inflator....my gauge seems to be faulty so took it off and took it to work to make an adaptor to put it on the pressure gauge tester......... left it there..... doh! I'll borrow the work one..I can only find 5 G clamps too, need another having six wheel cylinders! I'll let you know how things go... Phil if you're about you're welcome to pop round for a look and a cuppa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Photo's taken literally just after removing the drums, nothing touched yet.... Rear offside nearside... Nearside fronts.... Offside fronts.... Nothing obvious, little bit of damp on the rear nearside hub, not sure yet if its brake fluid or EP90, will check the cylinder under pressure, but that's a fairly new cylinder so it better not leak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've pulled all the shoes out now, and trying them into the drums they all seem to be of the right diameter to match the drums. I've got one loose adjuster pin but it's still sat in the right place so I don't think it's the cuase of anything, but I'll put a dab of weld on it before it goes back in to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've put the Eazibleed on and I'm leaving it sit for a few minutes before I start on, just to see if any leaks appear on their own. So far so good, no leaks anywhere, now that I've tightened up the bleed nipple I cracked off with the socket and apparently didn't do up enough again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 With the Eazibleed on, the pedal feels much better, there was still a bit of free play, but not a lot, much more as I'd expect. I've put this much fluid through it.... I use an old eazibleed that needs a new sealing rubber as a catch pot. I started with the M/C connections again, just to make sure, then went front o/s, front n/s, rear o/s, rear n/s. Tried the pedal again, still with the Eazibleed on, and it was better, hardly any freeplay at all...makes me wonder... I've took the Eazibleed off again, and with the wheel cylinders still clamped tight it does feel good, much better than my 88 if I'm honest. I'm not getting excited though, I had it before when I rebuilt the 88's brakes that after leaving it for a little while, they went soft again, so having a coffee and leaving it for a few minutes...plus the dog's moaning I'm outside and she's not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Its still too early to celebrate...but I think we might finally have cracked it...... Seemed ok after my coffee break, so I set to and refitted all the shoes, after checking all the adjusters worked and the direction of travel, which involved welding 2 M10 nuts to the front offside adjuster as they were round, and with the drums back on and the adjusters wound right out I jumped on the pedal.... went to the floor and felt like no brakes..... you can imagine how I felt then...... The fluid level had gone down in the res as I expected it to, about 1/4", and it had been up in the neck so well above the 'max' mark....on the off chance I wacked the easibleed back on it as pumping the pedal had no effect, and this seems to have shot a load of fluid in and with pressure on the pedal was great again. I took it off and tidied up the tools so it was left for a while, and all seems good....its back on its wheels again and back in it's usual; parking space, quick brake test while shunting on the drive and it seems like I might finally have cured it..... Time will tell..... Thanks for all the suggestions folks, I appreciate everyone's input, everybody has a black spot, with some it's clutches, with some it's electrics, with me it seems to be brakes, thankfully this forum exists to help each other out, I'll keep you all posted as to whether it's still ok when it's had 24hrs to sit..but right now I've cracked open the beer... McEwan's 'Champion'......7.3% so I'm not driving anywhere tonight!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 If the Easybleed adds preasure before the M/C peddal is pressed then this souns like insufiient M/C volume/travel to me? I would expect the problem to return again. You did say that the pedal would not pump up, this could be poor shoe adjustment and a poor M/C volume or travel. Personaly I have had it with shoes and drums, I had my adjustment good but now it cannot reverse as they lock immediately. Got the brakes wet in the flood and brakes completely dissapeared! Can't wait for discs all round if they work. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh NZ Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Good stuff EJ! Persistence is the key! Hopefully this is finish to your problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 If the Easybleed adds preasure before the M/C peddal is pressed then this souns like insufiient M/C volume/travel to me? It's the right master cylinder for the setup, its the same as on my 88, so from that aspect it should be ok. If however there's a mechanical problem with the m/c, I'm going to be right p'd off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 sounds like good progress EJ, personally i have always bled furthest nipple away to closest, i.e. back passengers side, back drivers side, front passengers, front drivers, would do the master first like you said though. im not sure if this actually has an effect on how well your system gets bled but i have been told doing it other ways may result in you "chasing" the air around the system rather than pulling it out, or rather it chasing you if that makes sense? like i say, i havent physically experimented with this but its how i have been taught to do a "full bleed" and it seems to work no problems every time. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 *P.S. have you peeled the slave rubber dust covers back to see if the cylinders are wet behind them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Ed. Looking at the pics you have 2 leading shoes on one side of the rear axle and 2 trailing shoes on the other side of the rear axle. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/landRoverFAQ/FAQ_rearbrakes.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 No idea...didn't fit them....must look in to that though, can't be a good idea having them like that. The good news is I still had a damn good pedal when I got home last night, so it may have worked..... Mikey I remove the rubber dust shields from the front cylinders when I clamp them, the rears are 'fitted' to the pistons, so I just flip them back out of the way. All seemed to be nice and dry, and leaving the pressure on for a while and stamping on the brakes aswell didn't produce any leaks. Like you I used to bleed furthest to nearest, but the last time I had trouble with the 88 I did it nearest to furthest....whether it was a fluke or not it got instant results, so I've swapped to doing it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 With a leading shoe on as a trailing or visa versa puts the adjuster post in the wrong position to the snail cam so when adjusting the shoes the action is that the shoe is not moved out to the drum but shoved off centre. The feel is that the brakes are adjusted due to the drag when turninmg the wheels but the shoes are only touching the drums at one end and at the pedal its either spongy or the pedal hits the floor but the brakes will pump up somewhat giving the impression that the problem is air. I first came across this problem with a farmer who had fitted new shoes to the rear of his 109" and developed a very spongy pedal, when asked if he had fitted the shoes correctly was adamant that he had and that the new shoes we had supplied were faulty so we had to fix it at our expense. Pulling the drums off showed that he had all the shoes the wrong way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'll have another look at it, at least I haven't got to disturb the hydraulics again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I second phils comments, it happened to me and i just could not get the rears to adjust properly!! i finally found out what the issue was, i had fitted them wrongly! It took some time before i figured it out!(even blamed the parts guy!!) Its one thing i always used to check over and over to ensure i installed the right shoes on the right side on 109 rear brakes. In fact i find posts like this very strange as my 109 never gave me any grief with bleeding, even when swapping brake setups (and i changed a lot of setups!) My only grief was the constant (or bi monthly adjustments) to keep the pedal nice and firm. The rest was always good (besides the odd wheel snatching here and there) G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 After leaving it for 48 hours untouched.....I've still got a good pedal! Seems like it might be fixed then, I need to put some panels back in and then I'll hopefully take it for a spin at the weekend and see how it performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 After leaving it for 48 hours untouched.....I've still got a good pedal! Seems like it might be fixed then, I need to put some panels back in and then I'll hopefully take it for a spin at the weekend and see how it performs. So what do you do when the shoes move to suit the miss matched adjusters against the shoes and the next time you apply the brakes the pedal then hits the floor and you then rear end a car? Pointer, Nigel Gresham look what happened to him. Put the shoes on the correct positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Having the shoes on wrong will result in losing the pedal as Phil says , it also applies to 110 rear drums too . It's a bloody silly design to make them look like they are all the same but aren't . Have found it frequently , and always with a soft pedal........ you will be amazed at the difference in the pedal, the adjusters will feel positive too cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Once you are used to the 109"/110" rear drum brakes the shoe difference is obvious, look at the position of the ferodo material on the steel shoe, the long unlined end is the leading end when the wheel is going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 The adjusters were actually working very well when I did them. And don't start threatening me with Gresh - I didn't say I was going to take it out before I'd swapped the shoe's chill guys!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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