Ben Spray Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Hi All So I've been talking to lots of people and have most of the parts now to do a ROW spec rebuild on my 110 (to 2002-2006 spec), one thing I'm struggling with is finding anyone who knows if a +ZA ie South African spec bulkhead harness will work ie plug into my UK spec engine and chassis harnesses and UK spec 10as alarm etc. So a rough overview list of the parts that I have so far for this project: Looms/harnesses: Wing loom RH 01 on with headlamp levelling - YMD000990 (same as TD5) Wing loom LH 01 on with headlamp levelling and alarm - YMD001020 (same as TD5) Engine harness 2002 on 300tdi no ac no egr - YSB001291 (specific to ROW spec, this one came marked as MOD spec) Chassis harness 2002 on - YNN000171 - (specific to ROW spec, as above this one was marked MOD spec) Alarm bits: Alarm/central locking ECU - YWC106280 Coil - AMR4897 alarm sensor - YWC102900LNF Bonnet switch - AMR2022 I have other sundry bits like the correct underseat fusebox, ROW spec fuel "pump" on its way etc. What I'm trying to work out now though is which of the following I should buy: YMC002413 - This is a fairly fully loaded ROW spec loom, central locking, ABS (not that I need that), alarm, electric windows (will add these in the future) YMC007583 - This is a more basic spec ROW loom for South African markets, it has central locking and alarm only I have an XS spec TD5 main harness here which has some plugs removed and is a bit cut about etc but still has uncut wiring for electric windows, heated seats etc that I can use to add wiring to one of the above looms as needed (depending on how easy that is!!) What I could do with knowing though is what the relevance of the South African market harness is, ie: What could it be missing that I will need? Will the colour codes match the other harnesses (engine and chassis etc) Will the plugs be correct for the other harnesses? I've spent some time with RAVE etc and all I can really see for the South African spec is a few additional wires (tacho for example), but seems to use the same plugs as far as I can tell but its difficult to see what could be missing. The only reason I'm looking into this in this level of detail is there is around a £400 difference between the 2 part numbers which makes me wonder whether its one of those Land Rover pricing anomalies or whether the South African spec is so much cheaper because it has a load of wiring missing that I will need! Thanks all Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Unless I'm mistaken, if a wiring harness has anything more than air con and a radio, it isn't ROW spec? I've driven 3 and they are very basic. I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're trying to make a UK spec Td5 with 300Tdi engine? The ROW spec in SA was sold as a Kalahari, but I think they also sold the Td5 at the same time, so could the SA spec you're looking at be for a Td5? Retroanaconda did a lot of investigation here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=59892, and it seems like there's a dearth of information as Microcat/RAVE isn't really clear enough on the loom differences. It may be that you have to bite the bullet and buy one and see. I imagine if you want a basic vehicle the various parts should integrate quite well (chassis, main, engine, wing), but trying to make a 300Tdi loom do electric windows and central locking with standard parts may be more of a headache, as you're getting into the unknown territory. From what i've seen, most of the large plugs between harnesses look common. I've always imagined the best way if you want some mod cons in a 300Tdi would be to get a Td5 loom and make it work with the engine, subtracting all the electrical bits which relate to the engine (alarm, immobiliser, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 a UK factory ROW 90/110 is basically a Td5 but with a 300tdi for non euro/UK markets, our own Bogmonster has a ROW 300tdi way down south in Falkland Islands, he maybe able to give a more detailed view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think they made RoW spec vehicles with the mod cons, but not sure what the loom numbers so you might need to be the guinea pig on that one I'm afraid! My approach was/will be to start with the basic spec RoW spec loom and then add the mod con parts stolen from high-spec Td5 looms to it. The construction methods appear the same and the basic wiring is all the same as far as I can tell from RAVE, so it should just be a case of adding the relevant wires and plugs in the right places. All the common plugs and the wiring codes ought to be the same, again RAVE will tell you if otherwise. For example a RoW spec chassis loom is the same as a Td5 one except without the wires for the fuel pump. The higher-spec versions of each also have wires for rear speakers, and of course there are variations for HRW, wash wipe etc. depending on body type and spec. To say it's a minefield would be an understatement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 wire colour codes are UK or Euro standard. Td5 wiring has the same colour codes as my 1989 110CSW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 great thanks all... Rob who built the ROW spec 110 (who is now in Australia) which was posted on here used YMC002413 and as mentioned it came with pretty much everything apart from heated seats and front screen, however the list price is £1074 plus VAT! although I negotiated a bit of a discount at my local main dealer if I was to go for that option. So that is the safe option as it were, as mentioned though YMC007583 comes in a lot cheaper although still a lot of money to risk at £627 plus VAT (no discount on that as the list price is over £900 plus VAT now) As you mention James that was also my intention to basically find the cheapest option that will work and then strip this 2004 XS spec TD5 loom down for the additions a lot of the wiring uses separate fuses so with some terminals from PaulMC and a few plugs/connectors to replace a few broken ones it should be fairly straightforward. I'm also going to have to add central locking and rear speaker wiring to the ROW spec chassis loom that I bought but at least it has rear wiper and heated screen, power socket and towing harness so thats a good start. Just to make life even more complicated for myself I also have to modify the ROW spec engine loom as my 110 is an auto so has the starter inhibit on the autobox etc to figure out and splice in as well as wanting to add a few additional sensors on the engine/gearbox (trans oil temp, tacho etc) Hopefully I can get some decent print outs of the wiring diagrams done and make notes of what I add/change but thats a way off yet. Thanks for confirming that the wiring colour codes will be the same Ralph. I may go ahead and order one of the two tomorrow still not sure which though, do I become the guinea pig as mentioned above and try the cheaper loom, or play it safe and get the proven but more expensive one Thanks all Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Ok so I have ordered YMC007583, will update the post when it arrives with the details of what is and isnt included in the loom. and a rough idea of any mods needed, may help the others looking to do ROW spec conversions. Cheers all Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I've just bought a basic Td5 bulkhead loom for £20 as i'm interested to know how all the combinations fit together. There's not enough documentation of this type of stuff around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Received the South African spec loom about half an hour ago, initial thoughts are that it looks promising, the 10AS and immobiliser coil plug straight in, it has the correct plugs for central locking on the front(see note) doors, the only unused switches on my XS spec centre switch panel are the heated seats, heated front screen and electric windows (and headlamp levellers but not fussed about those anyway), everything else plugs straight in it even has standard ISO stereo connectors (rather than the normal odd plugs that Land Rover use) complete with wiring for front and rear speakers, oddly haven't spotted an aerial wire on there but not sure if thats normally part of the loom? It looks like possible good news on being able to integrate the XS spec TD5 bits into it though, in that the windows/seats and front screen are on their own fuses, own relays and looks to be own underseat fuse box connections too, so hopefully I will be able to pull the terminals out complete with wiring and add it straight to the new loom Note - The only oddity that I can see so far is that there is no wiring to the second row door aux loom for the second row central locking, from looking on RAVE though most of the other doors are just spliced in so hopefully I can add that wire from the XS loom as well. Its all spread out in the living room at the mo so when the rain eases I'll grab the engine and chassis and wing looms and check they plug in as well I guess in theory if I attach a small 12v battery once everything is plugged in I should be able to test that its all working? ie I can check the 10as/immobiliser coil/central locking activation etc off the vehicle? I have a dash panel/guage set here as well as the underseat fusebox and positive cable that goes to the battery from that fusebox. Where should the glowplug relay be on a ROW spec TDI, I thought under the seat but cant remember seeing a relay holder for it on any of the looms I have bought (will recheck though)? oh one last thought the other good thing about the loom is it comes complete with all of the fuses and relays Cheer all Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 oh ps compared to a TD5 loom its a lot lighter/smaller as no ECU wiring etc obviously but this should mean that even after adding the extra XS spec wires it shouldn't be too bulky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMc Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The link harness for central locking and courtesy light switches on the 2nd row doors, plugs into C2004 under the driver's seat. It's a White 3-way female Multilock 070 connector - . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Ok update, found the glow plug relay holder (was on the engine loom) also found the plug for the second row central locking was on the bulkhead loom after all wing looms plug in (no BBU or headlamp levelling though it seems) roof loom plugs in, all door looms plug in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 The link harness for central locking and courtesy light switches on the 2nd row doors, plugs into C2004 under the driver's seat. It's a White 3-way female Multilock 070 connector - Cheers Paul, found it just wasnt what I remember for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 engine loom plugs in as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 There are extra wires here and there (in either the plugs on the bulkhead loom or the attaching looms like as mentioned with no headlamp leveller or BBU wiring) but will need more time to figure out what they are, I guess the chassis harness extras will be rear speakers, not sure on the engine harness yet, I also have a few plugs to identify so will need to take a look at the TD5 bulkhead in the garage in conjunction with the new loom to see where the rest of the plugs go But so far certainly looks usable for the saving between this and the other one at £400 more, if you either don't want central locking/heated front screen/heated seats or are happy to add them. I've dragged the XS loom up now as well so I will take a look and see what is involved in removing the extras to add into the new loom, with how everything routes and is all taped up etc I'm not sure that my knowledge will stretch to finding the changes needed on a TD5 loom to convert it though.... Cheers all Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 I think it has Air con wiring, certainly has the fuses and theres a brown 8 way plug near the fuse box, wont be using that though at this stage as my front panel is full enough (large mocal style oil cooler for the autobox, and possibly a larger intercooler) maybe in the future though and its good to know its a possibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Good work Ben, glad to hear it will do what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yep its looking good, compared it to the TD5 loom and apart from the bits we know are missing (heated seats/screen/elec windows) all of the other plugs match up I would guess if someone had the time and knowledge it would be possible to work out a conversion guide for a TD5 loom but I think both looms would need to be stripped down to see the difference. Although a lot could probably be done with RAVE but needs some time to try and trace everything I would think. I will at least make a note of what needs to be done to remove the XS spec bits from the TD5 loom and integrate them into the ROW loom when I do the work Cheers Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Out of interest then for what its worth, a complete ROW spec harness laid out takes up some space and a TD5 XS bulkhead loom for comparison, you can just about see the size difference of the main bundle of wires compared to the TDI loom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Awesome stuff. I suspect you've got £2k of wiring laid out there? I really didn't comprehend that a 300Tdi ROW loom could come with an alarm, etc. In the interests of starting to figure out how it all pieces together, correct me if i'm wrong by i've gathered this from your posts: YMC007583 bulkhead loom 2002-2006 300Tdi (i.e. no ECU) RHD With central locking, air con, alarm and immobiliser Without heated seats, heated screen, headlamp levelling, electric windows, BBU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hi, Yes I daren't add it up at the moment but certainly a chunk of moneys worth of looms! If anyone is interested and for the sake of completeness I will list all of the part numbers when I get a mo so anyone else can order if needed I messed up on the BBU, the wiring is there after all, I had the alarm sounder plugged in on the right hand wing loom but actually where I had it plugged in I think is for the dim dip relay (same plug), so its the dim dip that is missing as well as headlamp levelling from the wing loom connections (not sure if dim dip is just removed or somewhere else at this stage but probably best to not have it anyway ), the sounder or BBU plug is on the left hand wing loom (I dont have a BBU yet only a sounder as the worng part was sent, awaiting a replacement) as I have now seen and the connections seem to all be in place on the bulkhead to engine loom plug It also has an additional wire from the engine loom plug to the dash/gauge plug (white/slate) which seems to be for a tacho which is handy as I have a tacho ready to fit so all I'll need to do there is add 1 wire from teh engine loom to bulkhead loom plug and run along to the alternator The only thing I'm unsure on is that RAVE/EPC describe the 300tdi ROW spec immobiliser as using a spider unit with the same part number as a 300tdi Discovery, except I can't find a plug for it (probably no big issue with how reliable they sound and how easy it is to bypass on a 300tdi anyway) but I wonder if the immobiliser is actually handled by the 10AS or what as the exciter ring certainly plugs in on the same colour coded plug as a TD5 and I cant see the point of that if there is no immobiliser?, will see I guess once its all fitted. I also messed up a bit and bought gaiters/bellows for the door wiring a couple of weeks ago and now I have bought all 4 door looms they came with gaiters pre-installed, so I have 4 brand new part number YQQ000070 if anyone needs them they are genuine land rover and cost me £4.50 each from memory so happy to sell the 4 at £18 posted within the UK Cheers Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 good to see your having lots of 'electric snake fun' wait till you start fitting it, thats even more fun, one point is label every connection or make a list of each plug & what colour wire go to them, you will never remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Dim-dip is unlikely to be fitted to a ROW-spec loom as it was a UK oddity. Then again anything is possible, it was ruled non-compliant by the EU in the nineties sometime I think but LR continued to fit it well into the Td5 era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Cheers Ralph, I had started earlier, I bought some small tiewraps with a little tab on them to write on and they are working perfectly for the job, bought 100 already about a third of the way through them though Cheers James, probably best without it anyway then, as I say the plug is there on the TD5 wing loom, just obviously not wired on the bulkhead side, if I can find the blanking plugs I may remove things like that from the looms entirely And for completeness heres a list of the parts I've had to buy for the ROW conversion (not listed is the 2004 TD5 bulkhead and probably a few other bits that I've picked up second hand along the way but at least this is all of the looms and a few other bits of interest) Wing loom RH 01 on with headlamp levelling - YMD000990 Wing loom LH 01 on with headlamp levelling and alarm - YMD001020 Alarm/central locking ECU - YWC106280 Coil - AMR4897 Underseat fusebox 2002 on - YQE000180 Rear end door handle with CDL - FUB500060 (actually bought a complete puma rear door) Fuel tank - WHK100050 Fuel tank undertray - WFI100100 Window switch (2 of) - YUF101521LNF Door bellows x 4 - YQQ000070 Fuel tank strap - WFS100530 alarm sensor - YWC102900LNF Bonnet switch - AMR2022 Bonnet switch bracket - ABU710160 Fuel tank filler pipe 110 XA on - WLH500070 Second row door aux loom (under seat box to B pillars) - YMM000341 / lr016438 Engine harness 2002 on 300tdi no ac no egr - YSB001291 - need to add tacho (1 wire), oil pressure (1 wire), oil temp (1 wire), autobox inhibit, EGT (2 wires) and change temp sender connector for my use Chassis harness ROW base spec - YNN000171 - need to add speaker wiring (4 wires) on a separate plug on the bulkhead loom anyway Bulkhead harness 2002 ROW ZA spec with central locking and alarm - YMC007583 - need to add XS bits: heated front screen/heated seats and elec windows Second row door loom (2 of) - YMM000351 - LR016439 Front row door loom Drivers - YMM000291 - LR016315 Front row door loom Passenger - YMM000321 - LR016316 roof loom 2002 on 110 station wagon with central locking and alarm - YMK000472 - LR016283 - this also adds the central locking to the rear end door cheers Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Spray Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Sorry all I've just seen that I must have got the last of the lower priced looms as this one is up by another £240 now bearing in mind the price difference now its almost worth considering the YMC002413 loom which also has electric windows, ABS (apparently although not convinced on a TDI) and immobilisation which may or may not be included on the loom I have depending on whether its done by the 10AS or not, guess it all depends on what features you want/need though and what you are happy to add Cheers Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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