Which K&N Air filter for 110 200tdi 1994?

[Paul64]

Hello,

Which would be the best K&N air filter for a 110 200tdi 1994?

There must be a difference in the varieties, as the price varies from £23-49.

Cheers, Paul

[jjojjas]

not the answer your looking for....but I personally wouldn't bother. Iv'e had K&N's on a few motors (not landies)and although throttle response often improves marginally, so does noise and "rumour has it" engine wear. I couldn't be bothered at the engine wear bit, but noise and next to no improvement in power for £50 makes little sense. My 200tdi would fill it with old engine oil after 10,000 mile anyway!

[Paul64]

not the answer your looking for....but I personally wouldn't bother. Iv'e had K&N's on a few motors (not landies)and although throttle response often improves marginally, so does noise and "rumour has it" engine wear. I couldn't be bothered at the engine wear bit, but noise and next to no improvement in power for £50 makes little sense. My 200tdi would fill it with old engine oil after 10,000 mile anyway!

That's a bit weird that you should answer! I spent an hour looking at your site yesterday afternoon. I especially liked the links to all the different jobs and the summary of costs. Bad luck with the insurance job. It sounded like you had a right mare.

Regarding the K&N, why does everyone rave about them? When ever you talk performance K&N is always there in your face. Do you have any other recommendation?

Cheers, Paul

[BigSi110]

If you look on Hiclone's website (www.hiclone.co.uk) you'll find their own air filter which, according to those who've used them, works way better than a K&N.

The price is better too.

I went for the K&N, mainly because I wanted a free-flow filter and because they are very well known and respected. The gains aren't huge, but what do you expect for £50?

The Hiclone version clearly has less filter density to allow a larger airflow. If you're worried about dirt ingress, stick to the OE Landrover filter or equivalent.

Get in contact with K&N / Hiclone and see if they can offer you some comfort on longevity, if that's a concern.

Also, bear in mind that regular oil changes also dramatically improve engine wear / dirt eradication and help performance. No point doing the air filter if the oil's old and manky.

[jjojjas]

yup, insurance job was a pig.

K&N have been around for years, turned into a bit of a "snap-on" type garage sticker item in the early 90's. To be fair they worked great on older motors (such as Mini's) who had carp induction flow blocked with a fluffy old filter. At one point some of the racers used to tie womens tights to the top of the carb as a filter. This was obviously carp....but it allowed for better air flow and throttle response (less lag) whilst on the track. K&N came along with their product which was vastly superior to the filters of the day and cleaned up the market. The name to have on your modded motor. Not so good with modern motors though as air filtration is way better and air flow is generallly reasonably efficient (generally...).

Last one I had was on an MX%, louder and very slightly better response...only if you really looked for it (wife didn't notice, she thought the exhaust was blowing....)

The Hyclone seems to get good feedback as posted above, but I have no experience of it, the fuel pump tweak seems very popular, theres and excellent post on here about it. I found that a bloody good service raher unsuprisingly improves performance significantly. Others go to all lengths with exhausts/intercoolers/fuel additives etc. I noticed some improvement when I threw away the fan and fitted a 88degree thermostat. Runs much smoother allround now. My injectors are next on the list, but at £60 each I keep backing away from them incase there fine.

If the K&N fits in your existing 200tdi filter casing, then it will clog up relatively quickly from all the diesel mist you get on the tdi's. If I leave a filter in for 6,000 is well ready to change. I know you can clean a K&N, but I doubt they would be as efficient after a couple of cleans??

I'm not anti K&N, if I had a motor that would respond to one, i'd fit one. thats all.

Jas

[JimAttrill]

I rave about K&N filters, though not in a positive manner Personally I think you would be better off removing your existing filter if you want more performance. Just start saving for the inevitable rebore which will happen sooner rather than later.

Fit one by all means, but don't go anywhere even slightly dusty. I guess Wales in the rain will be ok, but not France or Spain in the summer (and certainly not anywhere in Africa).

Don't believe the K&N blurb, where they say that you are better off not cleaning the filter as it only works if it is partly or completely blocked; either way it doesn't work well enough.

BTW you get a million-mile warranty with the K&N. This is not for the engine, though ....

[Mark]

K&Ns seem to kill anything with a MAF sensor, and the air is tends to pick up the oil that is used in the filter, which then coats the MAF and stops it working. Dry filters (ie Paper based) work much better with MAF sensors...

I had this problem with my Mk4 Golf TDI...

Mark

[jjojjas]

Mark,

I had seen that very same statement on the golf forum, My wife has a mk4 tdi.

Jas

[Andy]

i put a K&N on a 1992 2.0i serria & it went a hell of a lot better, was noisey though.

i suspect the difference in prices is if its a replacement (goes in existing airbox) or a kit (replaces the induction system). on a landy i'd only get the replacement type, but then i have a snorkel so i need to keep the airbox. i cant imagine a bare filter under the bonnet would be much good if you use the truck offroad at all.

with my disco im sticking to the OE filter, i ran without it for a few days just as an experiment to see if it retricted the engine. cant say i noticed much difference & the filter i took out wasnt clean anyway.

with a turbo engine i dont think the filter will give as much effect anyway, the turbo holds the boost level up so you've always got the same amount of air in the manifold - bit of a simplification, but it seems to make sense to me.

[Paul64]

Thanks guys for all your advice. You have saved me 50 quid! I am just going to have to be satisfied with what I have got. I can cruise between 65-70mph, and get about 30mpg. That looks pretty good to me now. My REME friend will drive it around camp next week, and he will be able to give me a better idea of how it compares with other motors.

Cheers, Paul.

[Ex Member]

An air filter will do nothing for a TDI.

Adjust the injector pump and you will get tons of power.

[Paul64]

An air filter will do nothing for a TDI.

Adjust the injector pump and you will get tons of power.

But how do you adjust it, and by how much? If it is as simple as that why didn't Land Rover adjust it like that straight off the production line? Is it bad for the engine?

[western]

But how do you adjust it, and by how much? If it is as simple as that why didn't Land Rover adjust it like that straight off the production line? Is it bad for the engine?

tuning Tdi engines

[Paul64]

tuning Tdi engines

Thanks Western, but with a warning like "I MAKE NO GUARANTEES THAT THE ADJUSTMENTS ARE SAFE FOR YOUR ENGINE – IF YOU DO THESE ADJUSTMENTS THEY ARE DONE AT YOUR OWN RISK. READ ALL OF THE INFORMATION BELOW BEFORE YOU START !

Remember - this will void any remaining warranty"

There must be some risk to the engine. Surely a high miler wouldn't take to kindly to a whole lot more umpgh?

Paul

[Ex Member]

Just put in an EGT gauge first. Make sure the EGTs don't get too high and you are safe.

It is well tested that an air filter size/flow increase will do absolutely nothing to a TDI with a stock sized turbo.

[western]

Thanks Western, but with a warning like "I MAKE NO GUARANTEES THAT THE ADJUSTMENTS ARE SAFE FOR YOUR ENGINE – IF YOU DO THESE ADJUSTMENTS THEY ARE DONE AT YOUR OWN RISK. READ ALL OF THE INFORMATION BELOW BEFORE YOU START !

Remember - this will void any remaining warranty"

There must be some risk to the engine. Surely a high miler wouldn't take to kindly to a whole lot more umpgh?

Paul

Depends how confident you feel, most if not all 200/300Tdi engines will be out of LR warranty period now, I still run my 200 at normal settings, the pumps been rebuilt but not had any tweaks done to it.

[BigSi110]

This topic started off with the idea of a free-flow air filter to improve performance. Now we've got on to pump mods etc.

Get back to basics first. Make sure that whatever you've got under the bonnet is good to begin with. Good oil, filters, no loss of compression, nothing is binding or restricting the engine.

Next, check all drivetrain components. Bearings, oils, hubs etc to ensure they all work as they should.

Once that's been done, you've then got a good baseline for any improvements. Again, why put money into mods if you're being let down elsewhere with things that have to be done anyway?

Red 90 is right. The K&N doesn't make much difference to a Tdi (well, not that much to mine, but it's still staying there as I'm never going to get a refund on it now...) and pump mods work very well.

Landrover set things up to cope with ALL conditions. Hot or cold, the engines have got to be 100% reliable which is why they're relatively undertuned.

Our climate is pretty kind to engines (as opposed to the chassis....) as we tend not to suffer extremes of temperatures. Do a pump mod for somewhere like the Sahara, and problems with high temps are far more likely.

If you're not gonna do the K&N, then put in Hiclone's metal discs into the inlet pipes. They're £70 or so. Fit them with your eyes closed. Won't give you extra power, but they do bring the turbo in about 600rpm sooner.

[Paul64]

"If you're not gonna do the K&N, then put in Hiclone's metal discs into the inlet pipes. They're £70 or so. Fit them with your eyes closed. Won't give you extra power, but they do bring the turbo in about 600rpm sooner."

Thanks for that Simon. What you say about checking the whole deal makes sense. As said on previous posting my REME contact will be checking my LR over next week. I will then have a better indication of what is going on.

However, the Hiclones are another matter. I have spoken to several people about them, and again like the K&N a mixed reaction. If they are so good why did they not get fitted at birth? For £70 with no extra power what is the point? I take it the advantage over the longer term is the fuel economy?

Cheers, Paul.

[BigSi110]

Paul,

I asked the same question, but all I can add is that Tdi's are relatively old technology these days and 'modern' engines do use swirl effects in them for better efciciency.

You're missing the point with the Hiclone's.

Whilst not giving you any EXTRA power, they assist by bringing the turbo in SOONER. This should enable you to use a higher gear up hills. It's also quietened my 300Tdi and I swear made it smoother.

I've been told they're especially useful if you tow, which I don't (much to the disappointment of my 4 year-old...).

You'll also find Paddocks, Scorpion Racing etc selling them. Without trying to sound like a salesperson, they don't go into these things lightly.

I strongly urge you to try them. If you REALLY doubt them, keep the packaging immaculate and clean them up IF you remove them. Them sell 'em on.

Regards,

Simon

[Paul64]

Paul,

I asked the same question, but all I can add is that Tdi's are relatively old technology these days and 'modern' engines do use swirl effects in them for better efciciency.

You're missing the point with the Hiclone's.

Whilst not giving you any EXTRA power, they assist by bringing the turbo in SOONER. This should enable you to use a higher gear up hills. It's also quietened my 300Tdi and I swear made it smoother.

I've been told they're especially useful if you tow, which I don't (much to the disappointment of my 4 year-old...).

You'll also find Paddocks, Scorpion Racing etc selling them. Without trying to sound like a salesperson, they don't go into these things lightly.

I strongly urge you to try them. If you REALLY doubt them, keep the packaging immaculate and clean them up IF you remove them. Them sell 'em on.

Regards,

Simon

I will give it go, and report back.

Cheers, Paul

[rick]

If you want quicker spool up use a bigger diameter exhaust (less back pressure) and tweak the pump like Western suggested. If you are worried about EGT's just adjust the off idle fueling screw.

I've never seen any evidence that HiClones work, they have a reputation like snake oil on the Aussie boards, FWIW.

Forgot to add that K&N's are carp at filtration, which is what an air cleaner is supposed to do.

Isuzurover is a filtration engineer and can give you all the tech info you need on them There was an independent filtration test published in the US a few years back that comprehensively rubbishes them for dust holding/filtration. If you would like I can dig up the link.

[Andy]

surely the max fueling adjustment would have more effect on EGTs? as its at max power the EGT will max out.

[Paul64]

If you want quicker spool up use a bigger diameter exhaust (less back pressure) and tweak the pump like Western suggested. If you are worried about EGT's just adjust the off idle fueling screw.

I've never seen any evidence that HiClones work, they have a reputation like snake oil on the Aussie boards, FWIW.

Forgot to add that K&N's are carp at filtration, which is what an air cleaner is supposed to do.

Isuzurover is a filtration engineer and can give you all the tech info you need on them There was an independent filtration test published in the US a few years back that comprehensively rubbishes them for dust holding/filtration. If you would like I can dig up the link.

If you can find the link, I would be interested in reading it. Thanks

[rick]

surely the max fueling adjustment would have more effect on EGTs? as its at max power the EGT will max out.

I left out "adjust the off idling adjustment only"

Adjusting the stroke limit pin (diaphram) can easily exceed 720*C, let alone touching the max fuelling adjustment screw on the back of the pump. I can still hit 720* on a very long climb (3km) on a warm day with the diaphram adjusted only 60* from stock and I've increased the inlet hose into the air cleaner to a diameter of 80mm so I don't restrict myself there. The 3" exhaust also lowers max EGT, in my uncontrolled test by over 30* and yet it is so easy for me to hit that 720* mark. I've never even bothered touching the maximum fuelling screw as I can exceed (self imposed) limits of smoke and EGT just by the aneroid/boost compensator adjustments.

I suggested the stop screw to Paul64 as it's the easiest to get to and the one that won't harm anything whatsoever but will get the turbo spooling faster.

[rick]

Paul, the filter test is http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

don't get too caught up in the various brands and how they did, view it more as a comparison of media types (oiled foam vs oiled cotton gauze vs fibrous cellulose/paper)

As I mentioned before, Ben/Isuzurover who posts here is a filtration engineer and says these results tally with other (industry) testing he's seen.