Range Rover Clasic Disco 2 TD5 Auto Conversion, Nairobi

[cmuthama@yahoo.com]

My plan is to swap a rebuilt TD5 engine with Auto gearbox from a disco II into my 1989 RRC with a burst 3.9 V8.

This will happen in Nairobi, Kenya

Mark Prinold in the UK will supply the engine, gearbox. wiring harness etc etc

Its been done in many countries all over, but yesterday I phone the most reliable garage around and they main guy flatly said he cannot do it!

My options are either to she the RRC shell to UK to fit the engine............not possible because it will cost a bomb!

The other option is to bring in someone who can do it professionally within a week.

Anybody interested in this job? You can get hold of me directly cmuthama@yahoo.com

Anybody who knows how this can be done in Kenya without incurring unnecessary expense?

Those who have done this conversion, what advice can you give me?

[Boydie]

I would love to but the return air fare from Sydney Australia to Nairobi ?

[Shackleton]

On the issue of getting it done without incurring unnecessary expense, to anyone who hasn't done it before, there's no such thing. Even with the simplest conversion (and this ones not a difficult one) there's a lot of figuring out to do, and that takes time... = money. I would say that if you're in any way mechanically minded, do it yourself. It will be expensive to pay someone I'd imagine even in Kenya (I have spent time there, in a 3.9 V8 RRC, with problems). The reason your garage won't do it is because it sounds like a whole can 'o' worms outside his normal profitable day to day. He knows it could turn into months, and is probably worried you'd be back again and again with problems. There are loads of backstreet guys in Kenya with more talent and natural engineering instinct than the people who call themselves mechanics. So even if you're not mechanically minded I would say you could project manage a guy or a team to get it done. Getting the engine and box into the car isn't difficult at all. Ok I may have test placed my engine into the car about 7 times, just checking and checking again, but that wasn't a big labour. I had never done anything like my conversion before and I did it back in 2007 when it hadn't been done by many. I did it outside, in winter, with a very basic compliment of tools.

The D2 uses a ZF4HP22EH auto box. It's the same base auto box as your RR will have in it (assuming it's auto already) save for a few improvements and being electrically controlled. Someone might be able to confirm but there's a chance the gearbox mounts/location will be the same. My RR is an early one that had an LT95 gearbox, so to keep standard length prop shafts I made gearbox mount brackets to push the gearbox back a little. When you get the gearbox in, size up the engine for mounts by locating it on the gearbox. Ideally cut the chassis mounts for the engine off a Td5 vehicle to save you having to fabricate them. I've seen it done with the engine sat high so no modifications need to be made to the chassis save for welding on Td5 brackets. But I sat my engine lower and had to make indentations into the inner chassis rails to accommodate the curve of the Td5 mounts. Doing it this way will also mean having to modify either the fan or the cooling pipes that run along the front cross member.

Other than that you'll need the pump and fuel lines from a D2 as well. The wiring isn't difficult and you'll find that LR didn't change the base wiring colours over 40 years so if you get the schematics for both vehicles you can cross reference and match everything up.

Break it down as follows:

1. Strip your existing engine and box out of the car.

2. Fit the gearbox

3. Cut out the existing engine mounts

4. Test fit the new engine and take careful measurements. Make sure the engine/box are level on both axes, check that nothing will foul/everything is within tolerances - bonnet, fan, prop shafts etc (I had to make small grinds in the rad top and bonnet brace bars to clear the Td5 rad) *** Td5 engine mounts sink as they wear so make sure you do all this measuring with a decent set of mounts

5. Mark up the chassis for new mounts / do any fab work required to the mounts themselves

6. Weld mounts / fit engine

At this point all you have to deal with is the wiring and engine ancillaries. There's more than enough space in the RRC bay for everything, in fact it'll look a lot tidier when you're done compared to the V8.

Some notes on the ancillaries:

1. The gearbox chassis crossmember should be vaulted on the N/S to allow the D2 exhaust to pass through

2. Remove/add relevant exhaust mounts to the N/S rear of the chassis

3. Ensure the fuel lines are well placed and secure (they're plastic) Pull up the rear floor which gives easy access to everything tank related.

4. Weld fuel filter bracket to the O/S rear leg of the chassis

5. The Td5 doesn't need much in the way of wiring, I chose to have the security features switched off (so no 10AS module, central locking etc) but keeping all that shouldn't be difficult to achieve.

6. You can reliably use the expansion tank from the RRC. My car uses bottom coolant hose system from a Defender

7. Td5 air box will squeeze into the N/S battery tray, connected by D2 pipework, but Defender setup could also be made fit in the washer bottle area behind the N/S inner arch which could be more in keeping with a RRC snorkel

8. Vacuum pipe from the Td5 alternator will push fit straight onto the RRC brake servo (least it did on mine, but again it's approx. 20 years older than yours)

9. iirc I fitted a Td5 heater matrix to my RRC heater box just to keep pipework standard/serviceable

10. The D2 ZF4HP22 will send your speedo signals no problem but depending on wheel size/axle ratios etc the dash may need calibrating. If you find out anything about getting it done let me know, I did some math instead and learned the various speeds on the clock.

11. Later handbrake cable can be easily made talk to the RRC handbrake lever, but you might need to relocate the lever. You're on your own regarding gear shift lever mods to the interior.

I can't think of anything else at the moment, it's nearly 10 years since I did it. Just to mention though that it's a fine engine for the RRC, ok it's not as powerful as the 3.9 (I had one in my RRC too) but it is very similar to the feeling of the 3.5 my car originally had. Now that I'm a bit older and restoring my RR, I'm considering switching out the Defender box I have in mine for an auto. My Td5 RRC has done 50-60 thousand miles with the engine and with normal servicing has never let me down. Worth noting too that mine's a 10p engine and is still on it's first head gasket after 150k+ miles, with a shortened cooling fan and having been in sustained high heat situations.

Hope that's food for thought. Best of luck!

George

P. S. Get Boydie over, he's a scholar, whatever about a gentleman

EDIT: just remembered your comment about having it done in a week. All I'll say is it might be possible, but it's definitely ambitious. You'd need the right guy(s) doing nothing else for the whole week, and to be 100% sure you have every part/supply you'd need already in hand. The conversion has been done yes, but I think it's a little less de rigueur than you imagine.

[Snagger]

Won't the ZF fit the existing transfer box? In that case, no issues with transmission mounts or hand brake...

[Shackleton]

No idea but good idea

[Dave W]

The fuel system can be simplified to get rid of the TD5 dual pump system and chassis mounted filter with it's multitude of pipes. If the RRC has a metal fuel tank rather than the plastic one you don't want to try retrofitting a TD5 tank sender unit into it.

All you need at the tank end is a fuel pick up and return then use an external pump (Bosch 044 is a good option although noisy) with an inline EFi pre-filter. I also used a 300TDi Discovery canister fuel filter between the pump and the engine pressure regulator. This also has the advantage that if you fill up with contaminated fuel you can just change the pre-filter when it starts to get noisy.

You can convert the existing in-tank pump unit into a pickup pipe if it's a metal tank, if it's a plastic one then a 300TDi Discovery tank sender unit is an easy fit.

You can use standard EFi fuel hose rather than the plastic pipes Land Rover use.

[Snagger]

The older ZF from the RRC and Discovery I mates to the Borg Warner, as does the R380 (as in mine). Since an LT77 or R380 will fit any LT230, the suggestion would be that the later ZF in the DII, since it is mated to an LT230, should bolt straight up to the BW or LT230 in the RRC...

[Eightpot]

I think this is asking for trouble.

Far easier to repair the V8 or fit a 300 tdi.

conversions are never straightforward.

I went out to Italy a few months ago to help a customer with a comparatively easy conversion from diesel to 3.9 V8, plus it was in a main dealer workshop with access to all tools and parts counter. It took far longer than expected, proved impossible to get some of the random small items that were needed, and now I'm back in the UK and the only person who knows how all the electrical system was worked out, problem solving all the teething issues is very difficult.

There are a couple of Land Rover specialists around Nairobi - if Top Range is still operating on the big industrial estate they may be able to recommend someone?

Otherwise I might even suggest it could be a plan to see if you can get it to south Africa- plenty of places in Joburg that would supply and fit a TD5 for you.

Petsonally though, no way would I convert to TD5 without some very good local support.