Jocklandjohn Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I've had fuelling issues for a while and managed to get the van set up reasonably with a bit of experimentation with boost pressures and fuel pin rotation (thanks vulcanbomber for advice). I've been looking closely at my Fuel Injection Pump's vertical pin (or boost pin) and noticed that its got an id number on the pin end - 13. However the pump I currently have fitted is not the original pump for the vehicle, that one is sitting in the garage and I had a look at it and its pin has got a different profile and seems like a deeper ramp angle and a different number on the end - 72. I know these pumps were used in a variety of applications and I'm wondering if anyone knows what the correct pin is for a 200tdi? Or anyone with an original 200tdi and a pump thats not been messed about with could you have a look and see if you have a stamped number on the pin end so I can try to establish which one is the appropriate one for my engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 Bumping this up to see if anyone has any info on the serial numbers on the end of the 'boost pins' in Bosch VE pumps. I've emailed Bosch but not got a reply yet. I'm surmising (wildly guessing to be honest) that different applications of the 200TDi might use a different pin profile - so perhaps a Disco is not the same as a 110 or 130 with pin profiles varying to accommodate different vehicle weights and gearing. Although I could be completely wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 13 sounds familiar to me. I've got a spare Defender pump in the garage I think, I'll have a look and see what's in there for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 Excellent thanks. 9 hours ago, Retroanaconda said: 13 sounds familiar to me. I've got a spare Defender pump in the garage I think, I'll have a look and see what's in there for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 The damn heater matrix failed on me today so I got slightly waylaid, apologies. I will dig it out for you next weekend I promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 58 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said: The damn heater matrix failed on me today so I got slightly waylaid, apologies. I will dig it out for you next weekend I promise! :-) Land Rovers eh, always sneaking up on you when you least expect it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Absolutely! I reckon it's throwing a hissy fit because the timing belt is 5k overdue Just driven the 150 miles up to Oban, found that if I kept it at around 50mph the level hardly dropped at all. Will still spend the rest of the week paranoidily checking it every 50 miles or so though. New matrix ordered so that'll be next weekend's job now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Retroanaconda said: Absolutely! I reckon it's throwing a hissy fit because the timing belt is 5k overdue Just driven the 150 miles up to Oban, found that if I kept it at around 50mph the level hardly dropped at all. Will still spend the rest of the week paranoidily checking it every 50 miles or so though. New matrix ordered so that'll be next weekend's job now. First time my matrix exploded and filled the cab with glycolsteam it frightened the life out of me. Still you're in Oban - there's worse places to be standing with the bonnet up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Came across this last night - some of you might find it of interest if you are curious about Bosch VE pump fiddling: link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Okay, heater matrix sorted so opened up my spare pump today. Pin does indeed have a 13 on the end. No idea of the significance of it I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 19 hours ago, Retroanaconda said: Okay, heater matrix sorted so opened up my spare pump today. Pin does indeed have a 13 on the end. No idea of the significance of it I'm afraid. Cheers James. I was curious about the numbers because I have two pumps and although identical they have different pins. The pin numbers are different and the profiles are slightly different too. My presumption was that pins would be matched to application - these VE pumps are used in a variety of vehicles other than Land Rovers, such as VW's, Dodges and more - so my guess was that although ostensibly all using the same pump there might be application-specific differences depending on the engine the pump was fitted to. Anyway having had my curiosity aroused I've done some asking around pump experts and have had it confirmed by one company with a lot of Land Rover experience that the standard Bosch-listed pin for a 200TDi application is a number 13. Now where this might affect me (or you) is that the s/h pump I had overhauled and which is currently fitted has a 72 pin installed which sort-of suggests that this pump although identical to my other one, is in fact off a different engine and may have a fuelling profile that's very different from that used in a Land Rover. Now whether having a different pin installed when the pump is set-up and bench tested for flow rates etc makes a difference to pump output and vehicle performance, I'm not sure. Certainly mine is not brilliant since the pump rebuild despite a lot of fiddling. So be interested to see if anyone else with a proper original fitment 200TDi running the original pump also has the 13 pin in it. And just for interest I'm going to try and find out what a 72 pin was originally used in. Thanks for looking - thats helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prith Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Mine is also 13 on the VE Pump on a 200TDI. On Saturday replaced the pin with a Morgan Hill one and there is hardly any torque in slower speeds takes ages to pick up but once the turbo kicks in she flys. Funny I started getting some kind of burning smell from the engine bay after a 10km run, god knows it its the boost pin change or low oil even though I had checked the oil level which was ok. The Rocker cover was super hot, but the temp gauge was right in the middle. Today tried to start the landy and she was dead. Battery totally dead. Now totally confused if the boost pin did all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 25, 2017 Author Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Prith said: Mine is also 13 on the VE Pump on a 200TDI. On Saturday replaced the pin with a Morgan Hill one and there is hardly any torque in slower speeds takes ages to pick up but once the turbo kicks in she flys. Funny I started getting some kind of burning smell from the engine bay after a 10km run, god knows it its the boost pin change or low oil even though I had checked the oil level which was ok. The Rocker cover was super hot, but the temp gauge was right in the middle. Today tried to start the landy and she was dead. Battery totally dead. Now totally confused if the boost pin did all this. Thats for confirming its a 13 - they must be the standard right enough. Doubt the boost pin would cause your problem. Unless the sheer top end performance was epic! Sounds like something else has happened too. I tried a boost pin and had similar performance with no bottom and all top. I'd check all the usual suspects - all the cooling system stuff and ensure fluids etc are ok. How old is the battery? Edited September 25, 2017 by Jocklandjohn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Mine's got a 13 on the bottom as well , have the same thing as you with the boost pin Prith gets a bit better when she's warm but you have to push her hard to get her to pull in the next gear but she does fly as much as a Defender can fly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 15 hours ago, ianmayco68 said: Mine's got a 13 on the bottom as well , have the same thing as you with the boost pin Prith gets a bit better when she's warm but you have to push her hard to get her to pull in the next gear but she does fly as much as a Defender can fly . Thanks Ian. So it looks like the 13 pin is indeed the standard pin for 200tdi lumps. Still no idea what a 72 was for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Found this http://www.mandhinc.net/DPD-1-F.html looks as if number 70 is from a dodge, well I presume that's what it means . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 25 minutes ago, ianmayco68 said: Found this http://www.mandhinc.net/DPD-1-F.html looks as if number 70 is from a dodge, well I presume that's what it means . Good spot! Given the rather different profiles between a 13 and a 72 I guess there will be very different performance characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I have a very steep pin in my 300 it smokes like hell but spools very quickly and once there's boost all 100hp is unleashed quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 minute ago, muddy said: I have a very steep pin in my 300 it smokes like hell but spools very quickly and once there's boost all 100hp is unleashed quickly. Is there a number on the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Probably, my mate used to work at a Bosch dealers so brought me the best ( fueleist) one out of his many spares and we put it in about 7 years ago. I cant get into the pump easy because of the OBA setup otherwise I'd have a look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 minute ago, muddy said: Probably, my mate used to work at a Bosch dealers so brought me the best ( fueleist) one out of his many spares and we put it in about 7 years ago. I cant get into the pump easy because of the OBA setup otherwise I'd have a look Thats ok, dont worry. Seems the 13 was standard on a 200tdi, 300 might be a different one. Seems there's lots of variation. Be good if we could rustle up a Bosch listing with some details of application and pin numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I think I read some where when I was looking for pin 72 a 300tdi pin is 13H , I can check that tomorrow as my new project has a 300tdi and its on the garage floor waiting to be rebuilt so will have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmayco68 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Checked in the 300tdi and it is a 13H . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 hours ago, ianmayco68 said: Checked in the 300tdi and it is a 13H . Thanks Ian. Interesting. Might see if I can determine what the H is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 If you need the boost to increase significantly before the new boost pin shows an improvement, then you may need to adjust the spring tension against the diaphragm to open up the pin sooner. That is what the "star wheel" does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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