Geoff Jones Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Greetings... My friend is in the process of doing a body off restoration on his '92 D90 Ex-Mod. All is going quite well with new outriggers and rear cross member. Tub is back on and aligned. Before replacing the front wings we decided to start it.. months since it ran.. but always started right up before. Note: while body was off we did a routine timing belt change and valve adjustment. Attempted to start, nothing but cranking. Checked for voltage at injector pump solenoid... all good. Checked for fuel at fuel filter via fuel pump lift... no issue. Also checked for fuel at fuel distributor bleed screw... again, no issue. With my limited knowledge, I'm out of ideas / things to check... Please share any thoughts you think may be helpful. Thanks in advance, Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Cracked an injector pipe off to see if it is pumping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Are you pre-heating the engine with the glow plugs for 10 seconds? Assuming that it is getting fuel to the injectors as suggested above, I think it will be inopperative glow plugs. Check they are getting power when energised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 If the pump has run dry of diesel or it's drained back from the injectors you'll need to bleed the air out, takes a while. Loosen the pipe fittings on the injectors and keep cranking the engine over with a well charged battery - might take a couple of minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 Thanks to all who replied. We've carefully bled the filter, bleed screw on fuel distribution pump and cracked each injector tube and have fuel... Still no start... ! Question, if it's the solenoid.... should I be able to feel it click when someone turns the key on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 (edited) If you have a good flow from the injector pipes it should not be the solenoid. I would suggest checking the two items you have worked on while the body was off, even if only to eliminate them Edited May 6, 2018 by Roverdrive Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 From what you have described I think it is going to be either glow plugs or timing. It think it is easiest to rule out the glow plugs before you have to take the timing cover off to inspect the valve and pump timing. Are you confident that you had the timing right and the belt tensioned correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 Thanks Roverdrive and Monkie... Yes, I'm very confident that the timing was set up properly.... Here's an interesting fact I just recalled. When we first took the timing cover off and lined up the crankshaft dots... The cam dots were spot on, but the fuel pump appeared to be half a tooth off. We obviously corrected this when we replaced the belt and torqued the tensioner... we assumed this might have been the cause for the previous smoke / noisy running.. I don't remember which direction it was off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Was there just one timing mark on the injection pump sproket or two? My 19J has 2 and I can't remember now why there are two marks. Get your multimeter out and see if there is power to the glow plugs when someone holds the ignition key in the pre-heating position. If there is no power, work your way back to the ignition switch. It could be a failed ignition switch or no live feed to it for the glowplugs. Did you connect all of the brown wires to the positive feed on the starter motor terminal as one of those is the main feed to the glowplugs via the ignition switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 Monkie... Yes there were two marks on the fuel injector pump sprocket. One was a dot, the other was the letter F. We used the dot as was instructed in the manual. We also confirmed current to the glow plugs... Also fuel to each injector. We DID find a cracked hose on the return line from number 4 injector to the fuel filter and replaced it... Still no start... frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 So just to recap; you have fuel being issued by the injection pump confimed by cracking the fuel pipe at each injector and you have 12v confirmed at each glow plug? When you did the work, did you take the injectors out for any reason or do anything to the head/valves? (anything that could have deminished the compression) When you turn the engine over does it try to cough and smoke or is it just lifeless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeper96 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Sounds like timing to me, even with no glow plugs it should start after a good amount of cranking. But if the timings out then you obviously won’t have fuel Being injected at the right time in the cycle so no fuel to get the engine going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I agree with the above. These are relatively simple engines, the only things that can prevent them starting up in my experience when turned over by the starter are: Fuel supply (air in the fuel or faulty injection pump) Inopperative glow plugs Poor compression Timing (valves and or fuel pump) As the glowplugs are getting a 12V supply, my money is on the timing being out; maybe it's slipped a tooth? Did you turn the engine by hand two rotations of the crankshaft and recheck the position of the crank, cam and FIP? I once indvertently started up one of these engines with the valve clearances way out. It ran like a bag of s*** but it did fire up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Thank you all for your replies... We will be at the garage on Thursday and basically start over... Bleed the filter, bleed the injection pump, bleed each individual injector pipe... attempt to start. If no start, pull the timing cover etc and check the timing, then re-adjust the valves... Yes, we did two full rotations and reset tensioner... (followed Les's excellent tutorial exactly) If no start then.... God only knows... Hit the pub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 How are you getting on with your starting problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 Monkie, thank you for your follow up... So, we started over and carefully bled all the components... Fuel at filter, FIP and at each injector... tried, no start, no cough, no popping just a smooth cranking. We pulled the timing cover and almost had a heart attack. The nut holding the toothed sprocket for the FIP had come off and was laying in the timing cover... the sprocket had moved forward enough to allow the belt to come off... all I could picture was bent rods, broken rockers etc. We replaced the sprocket, started from scratch found TDC on the crank and re-timed the timing belt. It actually started right up, but really ran rough with LOTS of backfiring through the intake. We pulled the valve cover and were surprised not to see any visible damage to the visible valve train. we adjusted the valves which all were WAY off... started right up and ran smoothly, had good throttle response came up to temp ran at higher rpm's then idled smooth. could we really be this lucky? Here's what I think happened. Prior owner had replaced FIP.... I'm assuming now that they just unbolted the pump from the back and used the inspection port to slide pump into pulley, not removing the timing cover. Obviously they had tightened the sprocket bolt but never went back and torqued. We replaced the timing belt but never torqued that nut because we had never removed it! Lesson learned, torque everything in sight when doing service!!! Engine was cranked on the starter but never run with slipped belt.... Hoping valves were just "pushed around" at low RPM and not damaged. OMG, what a saga.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Great news that you found the cause. I would imagine that the push rods would be bent, even at cranking speed. Bent push rods would explain why the valve gaps were way off. Have you taken the push rods out to check them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 As above, check pushrods, even at cranking speed this can happen, and would explain the valve clearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 Bowie69 and Monkie... thank you for your input. Update: Pulled the rockers and inspected the rods... One is quite bent, two slightly bent and the rest appear to be fine. We ordered 8 new pushrods, the four rocker shaft spring as well as valve caps. The brass on the lifters appear to be slightly marred... hard to really see down there... but none appear to have any fractures. are we safe to just do the rods, springs and caps? I really don't want to pull the head if it isn't absolutely necessary.... Thanks again for all of your help and advice... Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I think that will be fine Just recheck the clearances after 500 miles to be sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Agree with Bowie69, I think the rods are designed to be the weaker part in the system for when this happens. The real damage occurs if the belt lets go when driving along at speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Update: We pulled the rocker assembly (again), replaced the tension springs and washers on rocker shaft, replaced all rods... Reassembled and set valve clearances... Smooth idle, revs cleanly, only a small puff of smoke on cold start up. We will check valve clearances again after 500 miles or so just for peace of mind. Good news and problem solved with the great advice from this site! Special thanks to Monkie, Bowie69 and all others who helped.. Cheers, Geoff 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Good to hear you got it running as it should do again after a bit of frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Jones Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 Well... I guess this is the typical LR saga... just when you think all is well, the s**t hits the fan... After all the drama, (see thread above) and after running great for several days.. and still is running great, we've discovered what appears to be an oil leak from between the block and the head. This appears to be new, although the engine was not tidy before and some oil fouling may have been present... but I don't think so... So what now? bite the bullet and order a head gasket kit? Photo... look at front of block...beneath number one glow plug area.... BTW, we've cleaned the area and run on the road again and it appears to be "bubbling" out at the same place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Oh no. That is frustrating. Are you absolutely sure that is coming from where it looks like it is in the picture? Could it possibly be a leak from the rocker cover gasket making it's way down there and fooling you? If the answer is no to that optimistic solution then the next question is - have you noticed high crankcase pressure at all (when warm take the oil filler cap off and does it puff oil fumes out?) The head gasket isn't that hard a job to do on these engines except the head is iron so it is very heavy - best to have help to lift it off/back on again. Click Here for a good guide and I would recommend the following: Get a good composit head gasket i.e Elring (land rover part # ERR3618) not a cheap one unless you enjoy doing this particular job and want to do it again soon You will need new injector seals (land rover part # 12H220L) and make sure you get the old ones out of the head first! Make sure the head and block surfaces are clean and flat. Take the head to an engineering shop if necessary for a check and skim. Clean the threads on the head bolts and block (1/2 UNF thread) then wipe them with an oily cloth (don't dip them in oil) Its a good opportunity to check the condition of the valve seats and give them a grinding if necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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