Les Henson Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Rather than fitting wedges to your axle after jacking the body up, would it be a better idea to cut through the axle tubes, raise the nose of the diff, and then weld it all back together? That way the toe-in stays the same, and the U/J's are less stressed, which is the object of the exercise isn't it? Anyone ever done this, and would there be problems with a line of weld around the axle tube (make it more likely to break)? If the recommended maximum angle of a U/J is 20deg, then you could almost program the axle to suit the suspension that you have fitted. At rest on the road you could have the nose of the diff set at, say minus 10deg, and therefore have plus 30deg on full suspension drop without fear of breaking a UJ. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Yes, people do it all the time. Much better than wedges, as you say. Indeed - our very own Mr Moglite did it on his Mog axles... (Well he watched Tonk do it... ). Best bet is to cut it off right at the flange I imagine - bit less reliant on the axle tube wall thickness that way. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detonationretard Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Elongate bolt holes on flanges at axle case ends, turn the casing upwards a bit, then fit slightly longer bolts and an old flange cut in half behind as a load spreader. Or use big washers of U have no flange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Dull Christmas Tech: The lifespan of a Hardy Spicer 1310 joint at 19 degrees is 15% of a joint at 0 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Would it be possible to cut between the U-Bolts? That way there would be some support each side of the weld, and you could clamp the joint to get the angle correct, tack-weld, remove the axle & weld up properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 jig it, cut it square, turn it, drill it, sleeve it, back flow the tube, puddle weld the sleeves, root the joint, cap the joint - strong as a strong thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 Dull Christmas Tech For you maybe, perhaps your IQ is too high for me. If it's dull, don't reply. Fao detonationretard :- that has to be a weaker option then welding. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Would it be possible to cut between the U-Bolts? That way there would be some support each side of the weld, and you could clamp the joint to get the angle correct, tack-weld, remove the axle & weld up properly. Sounds dodgy to me RTB... You don't need 'support either side of the weld', you just need a jig to hold the flange correctly against the axle case while you weld it all back up (at the correct angle!). Of course you 'can' do anything - it's just which method will give the best result (alignment & stength) in the easiest manner. People who do it a lot usually use a straightened bar as a jig with 'pucks' to hold the various bits in the right places. Shove bar through axle case, make sure pucks are correctly 'home', and you can base everything off your nice straight bar. Personally I'm looking at cannibalising an I-beam and building brackets for the flanges etc off that. (Not Rover axles though). Someone in Oz used to sell swivel balls with elongated holes where you could set your own caster angle. Forgotten who now though. I wonder how people who did this made sure they were the same both sids and didn't slip round in use. Personally I don't like the vagueness of it and would prefer correctly located holes, but it probably works fine in reality I guess... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detonationretard Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Fao detonationretard :- that has to be a weaker option then welding.Les. Adjustable though. And it hasnt broken yet. Oops, shouldnt have said that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Tech Archive: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=1374 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Sounds dodgy to me RTB... You don't need 'support either side of the weld', you just need a jig to hold the flange correctly against the axle case while you weld it all back up (at the correct angle!). I wasn't suggesting the support should compensate for poor welding!!!!!!!!! Just belt & braces, and I would have thought thet it would be easier to hold everything in place whilst setting the angle up - no need for a jig?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Sorry, I read it like you wanted to use the U-bolts (1 each side) to 'hold it' while you weld it. Which I don't personally think would give you enough certainty that the angle was bang on. I wouldn't even tack it then remove the 'clamp' and do the full welds. For me it's got to all be done in the big strong jig to ensure alignment is correct afterwards. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 how much do you want to rotate the axle? i used to run wedges but have just machined the axle pads to the desired angle now, no cutting or welding. or Al is right, i lobbed the ends off moglites axles and stuck em back on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 The castor correction thread is more complex by the looks of it. I would imagine that you could mark an axle for adjustment, then remove, cut, re-weld, replace. Making the axle flange bolt holes into slots is a bit hit and miss unless you have the equipment to do this accurately. If you were to scribe a line on both front axle tubes - then remove the axle, cut it, then offset the scribe line by (for instance) 3mm either side of the cut, and then weld back together. Wouldn't you then be doing the same thing with less trouble? Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Wouldn't you then be doing the same thing with less trouble?Les. Yes, you would, but people go a bit funny when talk of welders and cutting starts. It's fair enough - the hole-elongation method is probably fine for those without the tools/skilz to do otherwise. And why not. Not my preferred method personally though. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Elongated holes - hmmm, what would happen if you hit something hard, wouldn't one end potentially rotate back a bit I suppose one way to stop that would be to stick something (weld!) in the un-used end of the hole to prevent movement. A bit less critical than cutting the end off and re-welding but I still don't like the sound of it. Perhaps this sort of thing is best done properly or left to an adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 For you maybe, perhaps your IQ is too high for me. If it's dull, don't reply.Fao detonationretard :- that has to be a weaker option then welding. Les. eh? point being Im so sad I know lifespan reductions for UJs, not that the thread was boring The alternative to slotting flange holes by hand is to make a drilling jig - or perhaps I better quit while Im behind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 There have been a few posts where people have complained of rapid U/J wear - I know from experience the difference in steering on just driving a truck that has been jacked up. Axle wedges are fine if you know what wedges you want. You could however, could you more accurately measure how much you need to move the differential part of the axle in order to get articulation in the main direction (down), without causing more than necessary stress on associated parts of the vehicle. Then cut the axle tube, and using engineers wedges, move the differential to a more suitable position? I think axle tubes are mild steel, so welding them wouldn't be a problem. I gas weld, so welding the tube either close to the outer flange, or at the diff housing would make it more difficult for this type of welding. My concern in this is that a weld would then become a weak point. I can understand using a sleeve, and then a pool weld, but on the short side this would cause complications due to the amount of bare axle tube available. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jericho Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Elongated holes - hmmm, what would happen if you hit something hard, wouldn't one end potentially rotate back a bit I suppose one way to stop that would be to stick something (weld!) in the un-used end of the hole to prevent movement. A bit less critical than cutting the end off and re-welding but I still don't like the sound of it. Perhaps this sort of thing is best done properly or left to an adult les richmond - in the tech article - elongates the existing holes,and adds another non-elongated hole to stop any tendancy to rotate.rotational forces on the flange must be minimal compared to lateral forces.a good solution to castor correction imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Dull Christmas Tech: The lifespan of a Hardy Spicer 1310 joint at 19 degrees is 15% of a joint at 0 degrees Any info on 33,30 jonts or 20,20 for those of us who don't run girls props? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 There have been a few posts where people have complained of rapid U/J wear - I know from experience the difference in steering on just driving a truck that has been jacked up. Axle wedges are fine if you know what wedges you want. You could however, could you more accurately measure how much you need to move the differential part of the axle in order to get articulation in the main direction (down), without causing more than necessary stress on associated parts of the vehicle. Then cut the axle tube, and using engineers wedges, move the differential to a more suitable position?I think axle tubes are mild steel, so welding them wouldn't be a problem. I gas weld, so welding the tube either close to the outer flange, or at the diff housing would make it more difficult for this type of welding. My concern in this is that a weld would then become a weak point. I can understand using a sleeve, and then a pool weld, but on the short side this would cause complications due to the amount of bare axle tube available. Les. Axle cases are mild steel and do weld very nicely Ie. Webb it to death and nothing will rip it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Any info on 33,30 jonts or 20,20 for those of us who don't run girls props? nice to see you've finally crawled out of your pit - what time of day do you call this?..... lazy get.. you want me to ping over the mind numbingly dull links then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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