SpannerSam Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Afternoon all, hope everyone had a pleasant Christmas. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my 1990 200tdi Defender 90 onto a Richards Galv and refurshinging everything else along the way. I've rebuilt the front axle but after putting the swivel assembly together I've found the new swivel seal leaks tremendously. I've used a OEM corteco swivel ball seal and have replaced both the bearing and railko assembly. The issue seems to be that the seal isn't big enough as on full lock a gap appears which is letting grease through. I have built up the other side but have used a britpart kit as I already had it in stock and have not had any issues. The britpart seal always stays in contact with the ball unlike the genuine one on the other side. The only thing I can think to be casting the leak is the ball itself as the other side is a chrome plated whereas the leaking side has already be replaced with a black Teflon ball so I was wondering whether the Teflon balls require a different seal? I also have a slight suspicion that the Teflon ball could be worn itself as there are wear marks visible, although I would have thought that a new(ish) ball should not be showing signs of wear just yet? Any help would be greatly appreciated as currently I'm thinking the only option is a new ball or possibly seeing if there is a different type of seal for the Teflon coated ones. The genuine seal which is leaking is part no FTC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 That's a strange one! It looks like it's rolled a little, suggesting something isn't concentric (or even round) or that it is too soft for the job. All I can think of is to undo the bolts holding the seal on and look at how the seal fits without the plate. Does it make a good, even contact when it is just shy of the groove it sits in? I'd have thought the problem would be obvious if you just face the seal to the ball. You wouldn't have to pull the whole thing apart to investigate that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwards Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Sincere apologies if this is too stupid a reply.... but are you sure the seal is fitted the right way round? It might just be the pics, but it looks to me like the pics show the inside of the seal - such that it's not sealing on the ball the way it was designed? I'd expect to see a flatter surface around the swivel ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpannerSam Posted December 29, 2020 Author Share Posted December 29, 2020 I've undone the bolts and pressed the seal into the housing by hand. With the swivel hub straight there is no contact between the ball and seal, leaving a gap all the way round. I've measured the britpart seal on the other side and both seals seem to be the same size so my guess is that the ball in worn and needs replacing. I've also checked the the upper railko bush is the right way around incase that had brought the housing closer to the ball, which it hasn't. 18 minutes ago, Northwards said: Sincere apologies if this is too stupid a reply.... but are you sure the seal is fitted the right way round? It might just be the pics, but it looks to me like the pics show the inside of the seal - such that it's not sealing on the ball the way it was designed? I'd expect to see a flatter surface around the swivel ball. No its not stupid pal I thought that myself but the seal is definitely the right way around Thanks Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Also check the settings of the two steering-stop-bolts on the ends of the axle-tube; if these are not correctly adjusted the swivels can turn through a larger-than-intended angle, which could possibly cause the problem you're seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 5 hours ago, SpannerSam said: I've undone the bolts and pressed the seal into the housing by hand. With the swivel hub straight there is no contact between the ball and seal, leaving a gap all the way round. I've measured the britpart seal on the other side and both seals seem to be the same size so my guess is that the ball in worn and needs replacing. I've also checked the the upper railko bush is the right way around incase that had brought the housing closer to the ball, which it hasn't. Well, it sounds like your teflon coated ball is too small then. My knowledge of these things dies at around 1990 so I can't say if there was a change with later swivels but it sounds very much like there was! There's no way a ball would be that worn without massive gouges and very obvious marking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 The swivel balls are the same size as are the seals, part number should be FTC3401 The flat face of the seal should be facing the centre of the axle/vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Have you got the swivel pins and preload setup correctly? Mine only leaked when there was a lot of play in the swivels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 22 hours ago, western said: The swivel balls are the same size as are the seals, part number should be FTC3401 The flat face of the seal should be facing the centre of the axle/vehicle. I took everything at face value but I shouldn't have. It's clear from the photos that you are absolutely right - the seal is back to front! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I'm not so sure about that - the outer face markings seem to be visible in one of the pic's . Do you have shims under both ends of the king pin ? The whole thing looks too high on the ball to me ? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Agree with Steve - my bet is something wrong with the swivel setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwards Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Before I go any further, I'll stress again this is expressly not meant to cause any offence. I always try and be careful on the web to write in such a way that there's a minimal risk of that... Looking at the pics again, I think Steve B might have something - there does look like more of a gap at the top of the 2nd and 3rd pics, which might also mean it's tighter at the bottom hence why the seal is rolling over/folding in on itself. Anyway I was out in the garage earlier and because I had a new seal, and old swivel to hand....... I always believe a pic is worth 1000 words. I know you said they were fitted right, but just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Top photo is correct, Bottom photo is incorrect, the spring inside seal has to face inwards to the cv joint & fluid grease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwards Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Yep. That's why I did the 'thumbs up' and 'thumbs down' but maybe the pic could have been better framed. It was also my first time posting pics on this forum. I shall do better next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Ah didn't notice the thumb up/down photo's look OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpannerSam Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Thanks for all the replys and input In the photos below you can see that the seal is correctly fitted but the gap still remains. I have stripped the swivel assembly and rebuilt it but the same problem remains. With just the lower bearing/pin and the upper railko bush/pin fitted there is still a gap and the seal doesn't clean the swivel. I have removed all the railko shims and have found the pin doesn't seat properly leaving a gap as come into contact with the fibre washer. I'm still at a loss with this issue so anymore input or ideas would be greatly appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpannerSam Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Sorry for 2 separate posts but I've found something else. With the swivel hosing removed I can press the seal against the ball and it does seal correctly. The issue is that the seal has to be pushed that far back to seal that it is coming into contact with the railko bush and also the bearing race. Could this mean that the seal is duff or the ball needs replacing?? Also I've attached a photo showing the railko bush as there is a small gap between it and the swivel ball. I've checked that it is drifted all the way but still the gap remains. Is that normal? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Does the bush have a flat section on it? It’s been ages since I did one but I seem to recall that there is and that it needs to face inwards towards the seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpannerSam Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Yes it does have a flat section on it and it definitely faces inwards towards the diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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