Changing up-and-over Garage Door

[Peaklander]

My roller door curls up just above the door aperture, which itself is defined by the bottom of the roof trusses. They are the lowest point.

The space it needs is the diameter of the roll (when the door is up). I guess a supplier will know that.

I have pics if you need.

I’m sure a powered roller is the simplest. 

[FridgeFreezer]

OK here's the tracks from mine where it meets the front of the garage - you can just about see the lintel against the bricks on the left, the white bricks are the top of the pillar the lintel sits on. The piece of wood is screwed to the ceiling joists so the whole door and runners are above lintel height when open.

[ThreePointFive]

Well it's up (two weeks ago, actually) and the car goes in and out without having to take the door off. The power operator was well worth the extra, it changes the whole way you look at it and I also like that I won't need to get in and out of the car to open/close it.

I went with garage doors online, they were fine. 

Fitting and instructions were some of the most complicated, most stressful things going. Having a mate helping was essential, as much a second opinion on the instructions which were often unclear and contradictory. 

The biggest concern was the assumption that it was being fitted to a concrete ceiling. I had sheets of plywood to screw into but even then I had to use some battens between the rafters to give it enough meat to screw into.

Thanks for all the help and advice, while expensive it was definitely worth it. Fridge's thread is a must-read for anyone doing this as I encountered everything he did during the installation.

[ThreePointFive]

[missingsid]

6 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

 

Nice, I don't have room for that type as the ceiling light is in the way. I would have to open up the panel above the current door and fit a roller door where your diagonal panel sits, if there is height for it.

Actually I am confused by you picture and video. The picture shows the door just big enough for the height with 4 panels but the video shows more panels at 45 deg and horizontal as only 2 panels close. Does the video end before the door is fully closed?

I ask as obviously I have room on my ceiling to match the height of the current up an over but not if there needs to be extra panels than just the door height for a sectional door.

Is it possible to see a video of the last panels closing at the top?

[missingsid]

So reviewing the vid and pic I see a stencil mark on the wall which is at the height of panel 3 in the pic and only at panel 2 in the video.

I guess it is the different distances the camera is from the doors that makes it look like the door is closed in the video when it actually has 2 panels to go.

Does this mean that there is minimal height loss compared to a roller and no more room needed than an up and over?

[ThreePointFive]

You've got it, I cut the video before it closes as I was just showing the clearance. When shut, all door sections are vertical in the front door channel as if it's a solid door.

I would say it takes up marginally more room than an up and over because the springs are in the upper roof channels but everything can be tucked up so high it's basically irrelevant. A roller door needs more headroom at the front but doesn't go into the garage at all, so it's swings and roundabouts.

[missingsid]

42 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said:

You've got it, I cut the video before it closes as I was just showing the clearance. When shut, all door sections are vertical in the front door channel as if it's a solid door.

I would say it takes up marginally more room than an up and over because the springs are in the upper roof channels but everything can be tucked up so high it's basically irrelevant. A roller door needs more headroom at the front but doesn't go into the garage at all, so it's swings and roundabouts.

OK thanks I will look in to them, I had discounted them. I will look at the industrial site photo again as it is easier to see.

[FridgeFreezer]

Looking great!

@missingsid I put lights on the wall either side rather than on the ceiling, although you could also string a bar or beam across under the door runners with a light on it if you really wanted to.

The tube on the right has died in this shot but it gives an idea... also that I should really tidy my junk up

[missingsid]

36 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Looking great!

@missingsid I put lights on the wall either side rather than on the ceiling, although you could also string a bar or beam across under the door runners with a light on it if you really wanted to.

The tube on the right has died in this shot but it gives an idea... also that I should really tidy my junk up

Thanks this shot shows how far into the room the frame goes.

My garage is part of the existing house with wiring for the lights in the ceiling so I don't want to disrupt it.

[missingsid]

So underneath the motor is a cross tube between both runners, if I have roof joists crossing the garage to tie into do I still need that as my ceiling is not very high.

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, missingsid said:

So underneath the motor is a cross tube between both runners, if I have roof joists crossing the garage to tie into do I still need that as my ceiling is not very high.

The cross beam thing is at the same level as the side runners, so not exactly hanging down much, but yes I think if you braced the sides you could probably delete it, it's only really there to hold the two ends at the correct distance apart as far as I can tell.

[ThreePointFive]

9 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

The cross beam thing is at the same level as the side runners, so not exactly hanging down much, but yes I think if you braced the sides you could probably delete it, it's only really there to hold the two ends at the correct distance apart as far as I can tell.

I would say it's holding some weight, especially as the wood supports have no doubt settled on mine. That said, your idea of tying the side brackets into the wall rather than cutting off the extra length is a great idea and a bit more confidence inspiring.

[missingsid]

Well for this has been very helpful.

[ThreePointFive]

9 hours ago, missingsid said:

So underneath the motor is a cross tube between both runners, if I have roof joists crossing the garage to tie into do I still need that as my ceiling is not very high.

Ive just realised what you meant, there is an option in the instructions to cut the middle brace and bolt the ends into the wall. It's in the instructions on the garage door online website, I'll take a look tomorrow and screen shot it when I'm less inebriated.

[ThreePointFive]

 

Mine was done this way as I had very little room between the door tracks and the ceiling, the operator would have hit this rear cross brace if left in place.

Hopefully that's clearer now.

[missingsid]

Great thanks this looking more and more suitable.

I'll have to re read the thread as I only gave it a cursory view before as I had discounted this type of door for large workshops only.

It pays to keep your mind open!

[missingsid]

Fridge, looking at your build thread was interesting other than the build part. The brand used by Three point five states that behind pillar is std and an extra kit is required for between pillar as there are no fitting holes on the side. Your photos show that the brand you bought was drilled for between pillar fitting as std?

 

So just looked my garage with respect to fitting sectional door and it would be impractical for many reasons.

One is that the floor is lower than house floor so to fit the runners would need to be higher than the house access door. This means that I would lose the storage currently above the garage door.

Second is that the mains wiring for the house is just at this level going up the wall at the front corner 2 feet back from the door.

Third is I would have to remove all my shelving.

So I guess the only answer is to lose the above door shelf and fit a roller.

Shame as I was sold on the sectional door.

[FridgeFreezer]

Sid - it's been a long time since I installed mine so I can't recall many details. Also I'm having a little trouble visualising your circumstances from your description so not sure if I can give a meaningful answer

[missingsid]

19 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Sid - it's been a long time since I installed mine so I can't recall many details. Also I'm having a little trouble visualising your circumstances from your description so not sure if I can give a meaningful answer

Basically

Loads of room for a roller none for a sectional.

The current up and over is around head height of the internal garage to house door but is only there when open. The frame for the sectional door would be there permanently and impractical and injury likely.

[landroversforever]

44 minutes ago, missingsid said:

Basically

Loads of room for a roller none for a sectional.

The current up and over is around head height of the internal garage to house door but is only there when open. The frame for the sectional door would be there permanently and impractical and injury likely.

Not enough room to go above that door then? 

[missingsid]

4 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Not enough room to go above that door then? 

There might be I will measure up, Space is tight but I think it is possible as there is a wood panel above the door which can be removed either in total or partially which will give me loads of headroom but may not comply with local rules as it will change to look of the building slightly.

I also need to look at how the door is dropped into the opening, there was a comment on this thread or another making a similar question where the runners are on the ceiling but the door opening is much lower. Ideally I want the door to fit under a lintel and between the pillars rather than behind it. The answer may just be to compromise on some items. I have noticed a property opposite me which has replaced the up and over so I will ask them if I can look at his installation.

[FridgeFreezer]

Sid - if the door goes inside the opening then it's got to run backwards at the height of the opening, if it goes behind the opening like mine is then it can run all the way up to the rafters before going backwards even if the outside opening is a lot lower.

[missingsid]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:47 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

Sid - if the door goes inside the opening then it's got to run backwards at the height of the opening, if it goes behind the opening like mine is then it can run all the way up to the rafters before going backwards even if the outside opening is a lot lower.

Thanks Fridge that is what I thought.