Rasmus Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Hi Forum, I just participated in the Pomeranian 52nd edition – Grate race 😊 Unfortunately, my OX motor stopped working after winching the car (Defender 90) backwords down of a steep incline? No problem winching up – full functional after the ascent 😊 But the winch down destroyed the motor. I winched out (down) in small bursts using 12V. The winch is a Red Winch Cobra 1. Std. 12V edition. The motor is a 12V OX motor. The ascent was don with 24V overvolting. Any idea what caused the problem? It should in my opinion not be possible to destroy the winch going down? Best Rasmus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Powering out tends to over-speed the motor - effectively centrifuging the windings & commutator plates out of alighnment. On Red Winches website they say Quote One nice feature we strongly recommend is when you are lowering out you can switch your power isolator off to the winch (no power to the motors) and just use the winch out button/rocker switch. This still will activate the air solenoid At a guess! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 Thanks, That could be an explanation. I will defiantly be more careful spooling out going forward. Best Rasmus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 What did Red WInches say? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 12:12 PM, simonr said: Powering out tends to over-speed the motor - effectively centrifuging the windings & commutator plates out of alighnment. If you're powering out AND over-volting could regenerative braking be causing even greater over-voltage and thus burning things out even more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 On 10/14/2021 at 9:14 PM, FridgeFreezer said: If you're powering out AND over-volting could regenerative braking be causing even greater over-voltage and thus burning things out even more? You don't (easily) get regenerative braking on a series wound motor. The armature and field windings are in series (hence the name). In order for it to generate, there has to be current flowing through one, to generate a field, to generate a current in the other. Other than the tiny residual magnetic hysteresis in the iron core, there's no magnetic field to get it started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 14 hours ago, simonr said: You don't (easily) get regenerative braking on a series wound motor. The armature and field windings are in series (hence the name). In order for it to generate, there has to be current flowing through one, to generate a field, to generate a current in the other. Other than the tiny residual magnetic hysteresis in the iron core, there's no magnetic field to get it started. Wouldn't applying burst of 12V to power out be enough to keep the magnetic field strong enough to allow the motor to generate current while lowering the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Potentially. The problem is the resistance of the field windings - it's half that of a motor which will draw 1000A+. Your burst will be drawing double the current. The way it's achieved with series traction motors is to effectively use a sepearate speed controller for each (armatue & field windings). Then the field controller limits the current, allowing the armature to generate. It's not efficient, only useful for EMF Braking. Long ago, I tried to develop this as a motor brake - but the cost was just too high to make it a viable product. If you just feed 12V in to the field windings, they burn out too quickly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 Hi Forum, Thanks for all the answers. I now had the chance to dismantle the OX unit. There are no signs of overheating on the windings. However, the commutator plates are clearly damaged, and the brushes and holders are destroyed. I think it’s fair to conclude that its over speeding winching out that is the reason ☹ So, I need to figure out how to avoid this going forward – Maybe as Simonr suggest: Switch power isolator off when winching out? Any other suggestions? Ps. No response from Red Winches! Best Rasmus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Was that the retailer or Red directly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 Red directly 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Did you speak to Neil or Neal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 23 hours ago, Nonimouse said: Did you speak to Neil or Neal? Neal 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 23 minutes ago, simonr said: Neal 🙂 But don't forget there is a Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 Hi gents, I simply wrote an email - no answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Red winches sales manager is a Neil Brooklyn. It's Managing Director is Neal Jones - he's also the brains behind the company. I would email him. If you don't get a reply within 48 hours, email again. Red Winches are very good, but very, very expensive and for that you should expect a fast response, even if it is a holding email 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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