Gauge Lights not working - 1997 Defender 130

[Snagger]

I would be wary of using that slot, but a 5a fuse will blow easily if there is a short.  I have a nasty suspicion that somebody had replaced that fuse with a piece of wire as it kept blowing, and that wire got hot.  However, a bad connection on a fuse terminal (or any other small contact patch like a switch, connector or mostly broken wire ) causes all the current to flow through a small diameter and heat that restriction like a bulb filament (that is how bulbs work), so a badly fitted or corroded fuse or fuse connector could have caused that with no other problems in the circuit.

I think you can try a new fuse and see what happens, but make sure it is low amps and try is for a few seconds and check its temperature, then leave it running and keep monitoring every 10s or so for a few minutes.  If it stays cool and the circuit works then that suggests it was a bad fuse or connection, but it’d be worth checking the wiring at the dash and behind the fuses to look for exposed metal or damage that could cause shorts when the vehicle is moving or vibrating.

[Peaklander]

39 minutes ago, steve b said:

Is that C322-5 a crimped connection or a plug? just out of interest.

It's C332 (not 322), one half of the white connector shown here (photo credit to LR Workshop)

 

 

 

Great news @GTJR By the way I think you are uploading your pics incorrectly.

I think I have had that problem when I have  copy / pasted a file direct from 'Finder' on my Mac. Try dragging instead or copy paste from the photo library. Then again the Covid might still be getting to me!

 

 

[GTJR]

1 hour ago, steve b said:

The cigarette lighter is fuse no.9 (main feed - back light is part of fuse 16)

Fuse no.16 should be just rh sidelights and dash instrument back lighting. A resistance check from the RW(or RO) output side of fuse 16 to earth with good bulbs fitted to all back lighting. It should show resistance, low or zero is a fault to ground. 

Changing the meter to amps and making the connection to the fuse socket with the two probes with sidelights on will confirm amp load before putting a fuse back in. 

Is that C322-5 a crimped connection or a plug? just out of interest.

Steve

C322-5 was a plug.....

 

[GTJR]

1 hour ago, Peaklander said:

It's C332 (not 322), one half of the white connector shown here (photo credit to LR Workshop)

 

 

 

Great news @GTJR By the way I think you are uploading your pics incorrectly.

I think I have had that problem when I have  copy / pasted a file direct from 'Finder' on my Mac. Try dragging instead or copy paste from the photo library. Then again the Covid might still be getting to me!

 

 

Yes....it is c332...

[GTJR]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

I would be wary of using that slot, but a 5a fuse will blow easily if there is a short.  I have a nasty suspicion that somebody had replaced that fuse with a piece of wire as it kept blowing, and that wire got hot.  However, a bad connection on a fuse terminal (or any other small contact patch like a switch, connector or mostly broken wire ) causes all the current to flow through a small diameter and heat that restriction like a bulb filament (that is how bulbs work), so a badly fitted or corroded fuse or fuse connector could have caused that with no other problems in the circuit.

I think you can try a new fuse and see what happens, but make sure it is low amps and try is for a few seconds and check its temperature, then leave it running and keep monitoring every 10s or so for a few minutes.  If it stays cool and the circuit works then that suggests it was a bad fuse or connection, but it’d be worth checking the wiring at the dash and behind the fuses to look for exposed metal or damage that could cause shorts when the vehicle is moving or vibrating.

The fuse socket is melted pretty bad - I cannot see  the metal prongs.  So is a bad idea to bypass with the same size inline fuse?  

I will attach picture....or at least try.  

[western]

Best to find out why that fuse position has melted, before connecting in a inline bypass fuse holder. Otherwise it could do the same again & at the very worst set fire to the vehicle. 

[GTJR]

7 hours ago, western said:

Best to find out why that fuse position has melted, before connecting in a inline bypass fuse holder. Otherwise it could do the same again & at the very worst set fire to the vehicle. 

Recommendation on how to do that?   The vehicle is new to me and not great experience tracing these issues.  Thanks

[Snagger]

7 hours ago, western said:

Best to find out why that fuse position has melted, before connecting in a inline bypass fuse holder. Otherwise it could do the same again & at the very worst set fire to the vehicle. 

I have had low amps fuses get very hot but not blow due to poor contact with the holder terminals (happens a lot on my TMax compressor’s in-line fuse).  However, if the circuit is shorting, a 5A fuse will still blow quickly and protect the circuit.

I think that poor contact or a fuse substituted with thin wire on a faulty circuit is the cause.  Testing with another 5A fuse should not pose a risk, but testing with a high rated fuse might. 

[Snagger]

2 minutes ago, GTJR said:

Recommendation on how to do that?   The vehicle is new to me and not great experience tracing these issues.  Thanks

Take the bulbs out of all fitting in the circuit and then do a continuity test with a voltmeter from the output side of the fuse.  If you don’t get infinite resistance, there is a short that you will need to find.  If the circuit is open, then all is well.

[steve b]

17 hours ago, steve b said:

Fuse no.16 should be just rh sidelights and dash instrument back lighting. A resistance check from the RW(or RO) output side of fuse 16 to earth with good bulbs fitted to all back lighting. It should show resistance, low or zero is a fault to ground. 

Changing the meter to amps and making the connection to the fuse socket with the two probes with sidelights on will confirm amp load before putting a fuse back in. 

Have you tried this ?

Steve

[GTJR]

@steve b If I am understanding what your saying:  I have not been able to get to the resistance check.....It's a RO wire from fuse 16. Question....do I do this from the back of the fuse bank?  The front side is so melted I cant get a probe to anything.....it also will not hold a fuse.  The RH sidelights are definitely working.  May not to get to work it too much today.  The Mrs. has lots for Santa today.  Thanks.

 

 

[steve b]

Yes, from the back of the fuse box is fine. This test will only work once you have proper continuity between the RO out of the fuse box and the dash illumination lights.

If you continuity check RO from the fuse to the connector block to confirm it's ok also check continuity from RO at fuse to good earth before connecting that block C3PO or whatever it is - should be no continuity.

Are the RH sidelights are working without the fuse 16 in place?

Steve

[GTJR]

1 hour ago, steve b said:

Yes, from the back of the fuse box is fine. This test will only work once you have proper continuity between the RO out of the fuse box and the dash illumination lights.

If you continuity check RO from the fuse to the connector block to confirm it's ok also check continuity from RO at fuse to good earth before connecting that block C3PO or whatever it is - should be no continuity.

Are the RH sidelights are working without the fuse 16 in place?

Steve

Yes the rh sidelights are working. 

[steve b]

Looks like there is an added cross link to the LH sidelights. what happens if you pull the LH sidelight fuse? 

Steve

[GTJR]

5 hours ago, steve b said:

Looks like there is an added cross link to the LH sidelights. what happens if you pull the LH sidelight fuse? 

Steve

strange....still works....both RH and Left hand

 

[steve b]

that's rather troubling...

Is the dim dip working and on when the LH SL fuse is out? 

Steve

[GTJR]

7 hours ago, steve b said:

that's rather troubling...

Is the dim dip working and on when the LH SL fuse is out? 

Steve

BTW....double checked this am and when LH / Fues 15 is out the LH Lamp - does not work, but the RH lamp does.  When its in they both work.

[steve b]

Has fuse 16 socket melted enough for the two terminals to touch? 12v on the RO feed out?

Steve

[GTJR]

2 hours ago, steve b said:

Has fuse 16 socket melted enough for the two terminals to touch? 12v on the RO feed out?

Steve

I will check, but we are out of town until after the new year.  

[Snagger]

It does sound like the terminals are in contact at the back, probably because of the plastic melting but perhaps excessively stripped wire, a misfitted terminal or a piece of metal FOD falling down the back caused the short that lead to the melting?

I think Mike at Britannica Restorations in Ottawa (YouTube channel BritRest) may have a fuse box for sale - he has been doing weekly clear outs of all his unused stock, new and old, and I think a fuse box was among the parts he listed.  Would be a cheap way for you to get a replacement.

[GTJR]

9 hours ago, Snagger said:

It does sound like the terminals are in contact at the back, probably because of the plastic melting but perhaps excessively stripped wire, a misfitted terminal or a piece of metal FOD falling down the back caused the short that lead to the melting?

I think Mike at Britannica Restorations in Ottawa (YouTube channel BritRest) may have a fuse box for sale - he has been doing weekly clear outs of all his unused stock, new and old, and I think a fuse box was among the parts he listed.  Would be a cheap way for you to get a replacement.

will check it out.  I did go to Britrest.com, but didn't see the fuse box.  They are hard to find.  Had looked previously.  Rover North had them, but wanted a first born for them.

Thanks again.

[Snagger]

You may have to repair this one, then.  Some new terminals with heavy gauge wire tails epoxied into their slots - epoxy around the crimped necks of the terminals in the back, not the front, should give a solid and safe repair.

[FridgeFreezer]

On 12/23/2022 at 8:13 PM, GTJR said:

So is a bad idea to bypass with the same size inline fuse?  

Not as long as you're not putting a bigger fuse in - hopefully whatever the original problem is has been fixed.

[GTJR]

Todays update.

Removed the fuse bracket of the passenger compartment fuse box.  

The wires going into fuse 16 have been cut.  See picture.

In reading the diagrams (if I have any clue what I am doing) on power distribution/ fuse boxes page 1.2 it appears that fuse 16 had two RO coming off fuse box.  

In the second picture you see the in inline fuse(20AMPs!) with one RO and R connected....Fuse 16 is supposed to be a 5 amp fuse.  See second picture below.  There is an extra non hooked up red orange with some burn on it.....thats not connected to anything.

I tested this and it has continuity with the RO at the dash.  Seems to the be the issue....no power....to test the theory i pulled the RO off the inline fuse and then attached the open RO and it provided the light on the dash with key on and lights on.

So what to do?  

A couple of ideas:  

1.  Replace 20amp fuse with 5amp fuse  2.  Cleanup the open wire exposed....  3.  Find a professional way to tie the two RO wires after the fuse so power goes to both?  

Appreciate any recommendations.  Thanks.  GT

@FridgeFreezer

@Snagger @steve b

 

[Snagger]

It depends on how “right” you want it.  You could try to remove the cut ends and terminals from the fuse box, replace the terminals or unfurl the crimps to replace the cut ends with longer and appropriate fly leads to then refit the terminals (with the aid of epoxy in the back side to hold the crimped sections into the fuse box if the melting prevents normal clipping in) and then use heat shrink and soldered joints to repair the cuts to the wiring, or you could just continue with the inline fuse, as there is nothing wrong with those, with the correct rated fuse inserted and the two wires that were together in the original terminals spliced (I’d remove the crimped terminal from the heavier wire and strip a length, and strip the end of the second wire to twist them together and heat shrink them with enough bare wire left for a new terminal.  Don’t solder close to a terminal as the rigidity of a soldered joint could lead to fracturing of the wire later.