MRWOO Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Could someone tell me please why the 200 and 300 Defenders are so called? I guess it's the engine name but why are the engines named this way? Thanks Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Yes it is from the engine type fitted - 200Tdi (1989-94) or 300Tdi (1994-98 or 2007 in some places ) I believe 200Tdi is from the fact that it had "nearly" 200lb ft of torque (195 in fact! marketing for you...) The original Tdi engine was called Project Gemini, then there was a Gemini 2 (not sure what happened to that) and Gemini 3 became 300Tdi, so I read somewhere anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRWOO Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Yes it is from the engine type fitted - 200Tdi (1989-94) or 300Tdi (1994-98 or 2007 in some places )I believe 200Tdi is from the fact that it had "nearly" 200lb ft of torque (195 in fact! marketing for you...) The original Tdi engine was called Project Gemini, then there was a Gemini 2 (not sure what happened to that) and Gemini 3 became 300Tdi, so I read somewhere anyway. Thanks for that, I drive an 80mile round commute each day so I thought it about time me and the 300 got to know each other a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The project was called Gemini as there were intended to be two engines (twins), a petrol and a diesel, the story goes that the diesel was so good that it was decided that were would be no market for the petrol 4 cylinder, instead the V8 was offered. Right up untill Discovery launch in 1989 there were continuing problems with the 200tdi and preparations were made to launch the discovery with the italian VM diesel as found in the Range rover at the time, it got as far as doing the mileage tests for fuel economy figures with the VM engine before the problems with the 200tdi were solved at the last minute, and it entered production in time for the discovery launch. At one time pre-production discovery's were going down the production lines with 200tdi's being fitted alongside VM diesels The engine was later developed further into the 300tdi - an all round upgrade to improve minor NVH details, but only affecting longevity, power and reliability in minute ways. At work most people use the term Gemini to describe 300tdi only, and 200tdi to describe 200tdi. Various other project names have been used over the years for engines. Falcon was the 19J 2.5td, Storm is TD5, Puma is the new transit derived ford engine, etc etc Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dew110CSW Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Just to confuse everyone more, Was the P38 2.5 Diesel in ANY way linked to either the VM, TD, 200 or 300tdi or was it a stand alone unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Just to confuse everyone more, Was the P38 2.5 Diesel in ANY way linked to either the VM, TD, 200 or 300tdi or was it a stand alone unit? No.... was a BMW engine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dew110CSW Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 No.... was a BMW engine.... Right, Just wasn't sure. The amount of 2.5 Diesel LR engines there's been is pretty extreme... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Just to confuse everyone more, Was the P38 2.5 Diesel in ANY way linked to either the VM, TD, 200 or 300tdi or was it a stand alone unit? Straight 6 BMW which as far as I know has nothing to do in any way with any other LR engine except it may be a relative of the straight six 2.8 petrol used in South African Defenders. Same engine as the 525d used I think? Not a great match by all accounts, though I have never driven one - would probably be nice in something lighter like a 90 though edited to add ... and related to the Td4 in the Freelander (also a BMW engine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I thought 200Tdi was Gemini and 300Tdi was Romulus. Or was that just Disco talk and not the engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Romulus was the interior code for RR &/or Discovery can't remember which. 200Tdi is so called because it's torque output in Nm was almost 200 [actually 195 in Discovery version, 188 in Defender version] also it was the first of the 'Gemini' engines, Gemini 2 was a trial [with 24v alternator & other military requirements] engine for the army 90/110's range of pre-Wolf/XD TUL/TUM [ [none of these went into service] trucks only a very few of that engine were built & 300Tdi is the Gemini 3 version with around 208 improvements over the earlier 200Tdi engine range. the Tdi & Td5 engines were/are the last of the purely Land Rover designed & manufactured engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92.9 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 the Tdi & Td5 engines were/are the last of the purely Land Rover designed & manufactured engines. Morning I was told that the Td5 engine is the same as one of the Mercedes Sprinter range engines, so I assumed it was a Mercedes-derived engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Morning I was told that the Td5 engine is the same as one of the Mercedes Sprinter range engines, so I assumed it was a Mercedes-derived engine. Morning Whoever told you that was wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Morning I was told that the Td5 engine is the same as one of the Mercedes Sprinter range engines, so I assumed it was a Mercedes-derived engine. If only! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Morning I was told that the Td5 engine is the same as one of the Mercedes Sprinter range engines, so I assumed it was a Mercedes-derived engine. Nope, defo a all genuine LR engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92.9 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Nope, defo a all genuine LR engine. Well that's no flipping good then is it? I've been crediting Mercedes for that engine since I was told that. And he was a Discovery-owning mechanic too, so I took his word for it! Glad to hear the facts though; credit where credit's due! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Well that's no flipping good then is it? I've been crediting Mercedes for that engine since I was told that. And he was a Discovery-owning mechanic too, so I took his word for it!Glad to hear the facts though; credit where credit's due! I was told by the Principle Engineer of Land Rover Powertrain that there was such an engine as the Cologne V6 Diesel and that it was fitted to his Disco3, so if they cant even get it right then how can your mechanic be expected to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 I was told by the Principle Engineer of Land Rover Powertrain that there was such an engine as the Cologne V6 Diesel and that it was fitted to his Disco3, so if they cant even get it right then how can your mechanic be expected to know Sounds about right..... Closer than they sometimes get, at least it was only the fuel type he got wrong.... Would have been funny at the fuel pump when he put diesel in!! (the Cologne V6 in a LR3 is a petrol)... In saying that i doubt he did have the petrol V6, and just got confused with the TdV6 Diesel Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael calvert Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 though t p28 had a 5 cyl beamer plonked in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 though t p28 had a 5 cyl beamer plonked in? Nope, 2nd generation RR [aka P38] is a BWM 6 Cylinder 2.5 turbodiesel. Falcon was the code/project name for the original 4 cylinder 2.5TD [pre 200Tdi] Gemini was the 2.5 4 cylinder turbo direct injection 200 & 300Tdi's Storm was the 2.5 5 cylinder Td5 now the current diesels are versions of the Jaguar V6 & V8 engines suitably modified by LR for off-road use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Sounds about right..... Closer than they sometimes get, at least it was only the fuel type he got wrong.... Would have been funny at the fuel pump when he put diesel in!! (the Cologne V6 in a LR3 is a petrol)... In saying that i doubt he did have the petrol V6, and just got confused with the TdV6 Diesel Ian The conversation started because we had a Range Rover Sport TDV8 in that someone had put petrol in, and the principal engineer said it was probaly the Cologne diesel engine in that vehicle - he was wrong on so many levels I didnt know where to begin correcting him Nope, 2nd generation RR [aka P38] is a BWM 6 Cylinder 2.5 turbodiesel.Falcon was the code/project name for the original 4 cylinder 2.5TD [pre 200Tdi] Gemini was the 2.5 4 cylinder turbo direct injection 200 & 300Tdi's Storm was the 2.5 5 cylinder Td5 now the current diesels are versions of the Jaguar V6 & V8 engines suitably modified by LR for off-road use. I already said all that further up the thread Come on Ralph you're slipping And the only engines that are Jaguar-derived are the Petrol V8's in N/A and Supercharged form, the Diesel (aka Lion) engines both V6 and V8 are joint Ford/PSA engines co-developed for PSA, Land Rover and Jaguar applications New Defender engine, codenane Puma, is also Ford derived, not Jaguar Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ok, so I'm tired, I'll give up, as you've got better first hand info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ok, so I'm tired, I'll give up, as you've got better first hand info Ahh, small victories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Ahh, small victories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92.9 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I didn't know the Cologne V6 was still in existence - Diesel or otherwise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I didn't know the Cologne V6 was still in existence - Diesel or otherwise! Oh yes, the good old Land Rover tradition of tearing the ar*e out of an engine design for long after its due for replacement has resurfaced. The cologne V6 in all its glory, still with the casting for the dizzy, though now in new improved 4ltr flavour, also fitted to boggo Mustangs in the states Only available in Disco 3 (LR3) poverty spec coil sprung models in north america and IIRC some eastern/gulf markets Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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