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Mechanical winch


Kim Horsevad
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Hello!

I have just aquired an old mechanical winch from an old toyota.

I am planning to fit it to my 200 tdi defender, and driving it direct form engine (I think a rear propshaft from a Suzuki can be made to fit..)

So I end up with a wire speed of about 6 meter pr minut with the engine on idle.

I do not do competitions, so the winch is for self-recovery and pulling trees down and pulling my land-rover and trailer trough heavy mud in the forrest.

The winch I use now is a Warn 9000. The difference between the very slow Warn (1,5 meter pr minut under heavy load) and the 6 meter per minut for the new winch seem rather much.

Will the wire speed be to fast or just about right?

If I want to be able to adjust the wire speed at a later date, I could just fit a hydraulic motor and a hydraulic pump at the PTO, but I would rather avoid the whole hydraulic setup if I could just make it do with direct mechanical drive...

For completenes, here is a picture of the newly aquired winch...

Many thanks for any comment!

post-1230-1175857160_thumb.jpg

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6m a minute is about twice as fast as a standard Milemarker in low gear and for good control in heavy winching that sounds about right to me - it wouldn't suit the competition boys but it depends what you want.

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Nothing wrong with 6 or 9 m/min.

I run my milemarker in high gear whenever loads allow - thats approx 18m/min - perfectly controllable with a switch on the dash.

The problem I see is that if you run the winch direct from the engine then you have to use the forward/neutral/reverse lever on the winch as the only control - Pretty dangerous for self recovery!!! Hop out of the moving vehicle to stop winch!!!

Not ideal.

Thanks for you answer.

However, I dont quite think the above mentioned "circus" tricks should be nessesary...!

It shouldn't be all that difficult to make some kind of arrangement, so that the control lever can be operated from within the cab!

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I'd say it might be a bit quick if you're not competing, especially if you have to lift the engine tickover to stop it bogging down a little. From 800 - 1200rpm you'd be seeing 9m/s and that's blisteringly quick!

Let me just get this right... You are saying 9 m/s ... Nine meters pr second....!

I will agree thats "blisteringly quick", however there is quite a gap from the 6 meters pr minut I mentioned to the 9 meters pr second you are talking about...

I would say that even 9 meters pr minut would be a little to fast for self-recovery work, but I have never had a chance to try such a winch, so I cant know for sure...

As said, should the wire speed be to great it can always be halved with a snatch block

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6m/min is less than one quater of one mile per hour.

Thats about a twelfth of normal walking pace.

Not dangerously fast.

9m/sec - that would be scary.

Are you going to use a pto drive? Or a prop straight off the crank?I may have miss-understood you.

Let us know how it goes.

All the best. Jerry.

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Hi Kim how was the winch driven on the Toyota?

A line speed of 6-9 m/min should be fine my question is has the winch got reverse? - if not how will you pay out at the end of whatever winch task you may have done? Looks like a nice winch is there a makers plate anywhere?

cheers

Steveb

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Are you fitting a capstan bollard in place of the winch drum ?or are you planning on fitting a friction clutch between the engine and the worm box ? If not how do you propose to stop the winch under load,aside from switching the engine off ? Neither the mechanical dog clutch to the engine ,or the one from the worm box to the drum will disengage under even light load. Also, reverse gear on any winch is an important and useful feature to have, and you will lose that too. I knew a bloke that did a similar conversion to what I imagine you propose. On a particularly slippery hill he was winching up, his wheels could not regain sufficient traction to move forward enough to slacken the winch rope enough to change anchor points. We ended up having to pull the truck forward a bit with another vehicles winch so he could disconnect, which sort of defeated the purpose of him attempting self recovery.

Bill.

Edit. For comparison purposes. A Ramsay 8000 lb Pto winch has a worm drive ratio of 60:1 and for self revovery when I was alone I usually operated it in 1st gear of the old series 2a gearbox which roughly translated to a engine to winch drum ratio of over 200 :1. At a fast idle of 1000 engine rpm this gave a drum speed of 5 rpm or a line speed on bare drum of about 6 ft per minute.

The genuine LandRover crankshaft driven capstan winch has a worm ratio of only 78 :1. but the construction of the worm drive gears is substantially heavier than regular PTO shaft driven wormdrives

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6m/min is less than one quater of one mile per hour.

Thats about a twelfth of normal walking pace.

Not dangerously fast.

9m/sec - that would be scary.

Are you going to use a pto drive? Or a prop straight off the crank?I may have miss-understood you.

Let us know how it goes.

All the best. Jerry.

I was hoping to power the winch straigt of the engine with a small prop shaft of the crank. I think a rear propshaft of a small suzuki kan be made to fit. It will propably be two or three months before I can find the time to fit the winch, but when I do I will of course post a couple of photos...

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B)-->

QUOTE(steve b @ Apr 6 2007, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Kim how was the winch driven on the Toyota?

A line speed of 6-9 m/min should be fine my question is has the winch got reverse? - if not how will you pay out at the end of whatever winch task you may have done? Looks like a nice winch is there a makers plate anywhere?

cheers

Steveb

Thanks for your reply. The winch has not got a reverse. It is purely for self-recovery, not winching down a steep incline. I will try to post a pic of the makers plate...

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Are you fitting a capstan bollard in place of the winch drum ?or are you planning on fitting a friction clutch between the engine and the worm box ? If not how do you propose to stop the winch under load,aside from switching the engine off ? Neither the mechanical dog clutch to the engine ,or the one from the worm box to the drum will disengage under even light load. Also, reverse gear on any winch is an important and useful feature to have, and you will lose that too. I knew a bloke that did a similar conversion to what I imagine you propose. On a particularly slippery hill he was winching up, his wheels could not regain sufficient traction to move forward enough to slacken the winch rope enough to change anchor points. We ended up having to pull the truck forward a bit with another vehicles winch so he could disconnect, which sort of defeated the purpose of him attempting self recovery.

Bill.

Edit. For comparison purposes. A Ramsay 8000 lb Pto winch has a worm drive ratio of 60:1 and for self revovery when I was alone I usually operated it in 1st gear of the old series 2a gearbox which roughly translated to a engine to winch drum ratio of over 200 :1. At a fast idle of 1000 engine rpm this gave a drum speed of 5 rpm or a line speed on bare drum of about 6 ft per minute.

The genuine LandRover crankshaft driven capstan winch has a worm ratio of only 78 :1. but the construction of the worm drive gears is substantially heavier than regular PTO shaft driven wormdrives

Thanks for you reply. As said the winch is not for competition. The winch, once engaged, will require stopping the engine to disengage. I know this will be arkward in a competition enviroment, but I dont think it will give me much trouble... We dont have all that many hills requiring winch assistance for more than one rope length here in Denmak..

In your example, the guy with the winch could just have stopped the engine, used his Hilift and a prusik knot on the winchline to give enough slack to disengage winch. I know this will be a little odd, but my main use for this winch is self-recovery in muddy forrest terrain, not winching up or down hills.

Fitting a friction clutch between the engine and winch would of course be nice though. However I dont think it will be easy to locate a suitable one..

I have a ramsey 24volt electric winch lying around in a dark corner of the workshop. If I can find the time this will be fittet as a rear winch - then I have the ability to lower the truck down a steep hill, and do a self recovery if I should find myself in a situations where the engine dies.

I didnt think about fitting a capstan bollard... Using a capstan, alone, for self-recovery would require some nearly athletical abilities to manage both the steering wheel and the rope at the same time...

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