Hello - Defender mods

[Nasher]

Hello all.

Just to introduce myself, and ask some typical daft questions from a newbie.

I currently drive a 52 plate (new Shape) 3.2TD Shogun that I've been very pleased with, but my circumstances have changed.

I no longer do a 90 mile a day commute to work, and I'm using my boat more and more, so the Shogun is on the beach a lot more and full of wet gear, kids and camping gear.

The Shogun has always coped surprisingly well, especially digging itself and two tons of boat and trailer out of the gravel beach in low range with the diff locks on. However, I find it a bit fragile with regards to upholstery, trim, bodywork etc, and have always really wanted a Land Rover.

I'm looking to swap the Shogun for a 2 or 3 year old Defender 110 TD5 at the end of this year, but I think I will need to make some mods. Friends tell me to get a Discovery instead, but they just don't have any appeal to me. I also believe there is additional scope to 'personnalise' the defender.

Being quite tall I like the idea of some more leg room, and have noticed the kits that are available to move the front seats back a few inches. Are they worth the money? or should I look at making them myself? I have welding and machining facilities. I presume they do actually make a difference.

Also being quite big means I'll need some more elbow room. Does a smaller steering wheel help that much?

I'm told the TD5 responds well to 'chipping' the ECU and a larger intercooler.

Is the conversion worth considering?

Which companies kit is recommended?

Once the extra Torque/BHP is available I'd also like to be a bit more comfortable on the motorway by getting the revs down.

Again 'I'm told' I can install a Discovery gear set which will reduce the revs, noise, and fuel consumption.

I know this will effect the bottom end adversely, but I won't be going rock crawling or anything.

Is this conversion just the gear set, or is it the whole gearbox and/or transfer box? which sounds easier and cheaper because I can do it myself.

Does it cause any issues low down?

Is it really worth it?

With 50/50 Road/Off-Road tyres will I still be able to hear the finer points of ZZtop at 70mph on the motorway?

Thanks.

Nasher.

[BoatBuoy]

Once the extra Torque/BHP is available I'd also like to be a bit more comfortable on the motorway by getting the revs down.

Again 'I'm told' I can install a Discovery gear set which will reduce the revs, noise, and fuel consumption.

I know this will effect the bottom end adversely, but I won't be going rock crawling or anything.

Is this conversion just the gear set, or is it the whole gearbox and/or transfer box? which sounds easier and cheaper because I can do it myself.

Does it cause any issues low down?

Is it really worth it?

With 50/50 Road/Off-Road tyres will I still be able to hear the finer points of ZZtop at 70mph on the motorway?

Thanks.

Nasher.

Welcome.

Sounds like you have cash to burn, so fit a GKN overdrive to give you motorway performance, but not affecting your offroad / towing. Willl be better geared. I run a 110 TD5 on 50/50 muds and no, you won't be able to hear the radio at motorway sppeds, although an overdrive might help with this. I really like the Electronic Traction Control, and could help you extract yourself from the beach if you have issues, especially as the Shogun probably has a locking rear diff and the 110 won't. Air-con models are a bit cramped, but again I like the option. I've not seen the seat runners, but heard good reviews but maybe a little expensive for what they are. But then again, what''s your time worth trying to make them?! My advice really would be poach a loaner from a dealer for the weekend or hire one from SHB 4x4 just to see if you can put up with the lack of comfort, before you shell out a load of cash on one.

Extra's wise, just fit a EP9 superwinch with plasma on a standard plain winch bumper, and you with have understated non-chav bling, that will work when you need it too. That is all a road going defender should have, along with Wolf wheel rims.

So what boat do you have then?

Cheers,

Keef.

[BogMonster]

I think with a bit of fabricating skill you could make the seat runners fit yourself - it can't be too hard basically just a case of moving the mounting points back a bit . I have not tried it as there is just about enough room for me at 6'1" tall.

I'm pretty sure Ashcroft Transmissions do a conversion gear set for the transfer box, or you could blag a transfer box out of a Discovery Td5 in a scrapyard but beware of getting one with no centre diff lock fitted - a lot of them didn't have and you definitely want this if you are towing on a loose beach! Traction control is no substitute. The overdrive is another option but the most expensive one - the best thing might be to give Dave Ashcroft a ring to discuss the options - he also posts on this forum as "gearboxdave" so you could PM him on here too.

[Nasher]

Thanks Guys

Just trying to make sure of things before I commit.

Keep the comments coming.

Nasher

[Mark Jenkins]

Also being quite big means I'll need some more elbow room. Does a smaller steering wheel help that much?

You'll notice that a lot of Defender drivers drive with their window wound down and their elbow sticking out (which is a bad thing to do offroad!)- I suppose a smaller steering wheel would bring your elbows in a little but they're pretty cramped to be honest.

[Top90]

Again 'I'm told' I can install a Discovery gear set which will reduce the revs, noise, and fuel consumption.

I know this will effect the bottom end adversely, but I won't be going rock crawling or anything.

Is this conversion just the gear set, or is it the whole gearbox and/or transfer box? which sounds easier and cheaper because I can do it myself.

Does it cause any issues low down?

Is it really worth it?

With 50/50 Road/Off-Road tyres will I still be able to hear the finer points of ZZtop at 70mph on the motorway?

Thanks.

Nasher.

Hi Nasher

I have the disco gears in my 110, with a slight ECU tune. I don't need to turn the stereo up. Gets noisy over 80ish, but we are talking about a vehilce the same shape as a brick, so if you are considering a Defender I guess you don't want to go everywhere at warp speed.

It's only a cog or two in the transfer box, so also undetectable to dealers if the car is under warentee.

Easiest way to explain it is the engine will be revving as fast at 70mph as it used to at 61mph.

I've done 43,000 miles since the tune and gears ungrade and never had any problems at all.

This will raise the gearing in high range by 15%, but mine still pulls fine in high first with a 3 ton trailer as the anti-stall does all the work, even pulling away up hill it's fine.

If you get decent tyres they should not be too noisy. BFG Mud Terrains are my favorite and they don't make much noise. All terrains (BFG) are as quiet as road tyres in my opinion and I would not use another make of tyre for general use as I've never even had a puncture. (even after a three week trip in Morocco)

I can talk to passengers normally, even at 70mph, so ZZ top should be no problem.

My 110 is now 18 months old. (48,000 miles)

Rich

[300bhp/ton]

To some a Defender is more cramped and less comfortable, but to me I see them as being more purposeful and focused.

My first car was a 300TDI 90 Hard Top and it is 18 cars later still the only one I regret selling. If money permitted I wouldn’t hesitate in owning another even as a daily driver.

The elbow room is a funny issue and one a friend with a fairly new’ish TD5 90 was recently complaining about why hasn’t the new Defender got more elbow room. Well the answer is simple, the door itself is what makes it cramped not the trim or the interior. There are only two ways of getting more elbow room.

1. Moving the steering column and seat closer to the centre line of the vehicle. A lot of work, redesign and will reduce clearance to the transmission tunnel.

2. Make the entire vehicle wider thus moving the door away from the driver. Again a lot of resign, would make the vehicle bigger, bulkier and heavier.

You’ll notice that even a Discovery 1 has a lot more elbow room, but that’s because the entire vehicle is a lot wider and bigger.

Best thing you can do is see if you can test drive a Defender for a half day or something and see if you like it.

But remember they are utilitarian and agricultural, which for many (me included ) is the big part of their appeal. I like the boxy shape, it looks good and is easy to know the dimensions thus making it easy to manoeuvre and park. The lack of elbow room also means it’s easier to look out of the drivers side window, or in fact stick your head and half your torso out as well.

For performance I would highly recommend a bigger intercooler and chip. I sent my 200TDI to Allisport who gave top notch service and transformed the way my Discovery drives. Jeremy J Fearn and Twisted Performance as some other well known tuners.

As for the transfer box, I personally wouldn’t bother, in fact I think the one in the Defender is better than the Discovery one and would happily swap in a Defender one to my Discovery. The lower revs won’t be massively lower and won’t really affect the noise all that much. You can buy aftermarket sound deadening kits which might help out a bit though. A better stereo with more good quality speakers would be a good options as well.

And if noise is an issue try and get some tyres with a fairly low harmonic signature.

BTW – the Discovery transfer box has the same low range ratio, it’s only the high range which is different. But yeah do watch out for lack of diff lock on the Discovery transfer boxes as you will be needing it.

Land Rovers, specifically Defenders and Series are some what of a love affair. Some may hate them but if you let them into your life no other 4x4 will do.

[BigSi110]

For what it's worth, here's my diatribe...

I have the Mud Rails fitted in my 110. I'm 6ft4". Couldn't drive a LR regularly without them. Cost £30 and fitted in 20 mins. I really do not see the point of making them yourself. They are eggshell black. I get another 2" of rearward seat travel plus it raises the seat by approx 1".

Elbow room? I have a small, leather Mountney steering wheel. Mainly as a consequence of the MudRails as my thighs then hit the standard LR wheel, but also because I think the standard job is just too damn big anyway.

My new wheel is fab!! Nice and thick, wheel still easily turns with one hand (if that's your thing), improves response as less radius and therefore circumferential movement, looks great and DOES improve elbow room.

When I first drove my 110 at the dealer (mine is 13 years old and I bought her last year), my right hand kept hitting the window.

Never happens now. I do not have to open the window for convenience (and I've arms like a monkey) and would recommend a smaller wheel with as much insistence as having an engine.

Power. Can't comment on the Td5 as mine's a Tdi, but there's plenty you can do. Brunel's standard size intercooler has a 100mm thick core instead of the 50mm thick one from Allisport. Cheaper too and just as well built. Should give you a useful extra push.

Cenrtre-box removal (Bearmach do a Td5 110 centre pipe which just bolts on in place of the mid silencer pipe), EGR blanking, re-map all make a difference and can be done in stages (re-map and intercooler must be done together).

My Tdi cruises at 70mph and you'd not know she was a diesel. ZZTop / Hendrix / Def Leppard / AC-DC all perfectly audible at 70mph through the standard LR speakers. The Td5 should be quieter.

Go for it and let us know how you get on.

[JSG]

I used to have a 2000 year TD5 110 and the GKN overdrive I had fitted made cruising at motorway speeds much better - you could talk normally and hear the stereo easily. I didn't get mine chipped but found performance ok.

Being under 6' the leg room was fine - even with the air-con option but it was a pain to get to the window winder (pre-electric windows). I'm a big bloke (ok, fat) and although elbow room was tight it didn't bother me, I did fit a slightly smaller steering wheel but that was due to wanting a leather rim and the window winder issue.

As someone else said, it's the vehicle I most regret selling (traded it against a Range Rover).

[Projectblue]

Being quite tall I like the idea of some more leg room...

This depends on which Defender you buy at the outset. If you buy a hardtop (aka 'van') you will have the bulkhead issue. If you buy something 4 doors (either Station Wagon, CSW or Crew cab) there is no bulkhead and no problem with legroom (other than the persistant issues with Defender ergonomics )

I have the mud rails and had to take them straight back out again, this isn't anything to do with the product, but the fact my chunky thighs prevent the steering wheel turning, thus compromising safety somewhat.

However, just fitted a luvverly Momo wheel with the flat bottom. Plenty of room for the legs, however I should warn other drivers with the optional Land Rover fitted belly extension that the boss for the wheel (and therefore probably Mountey as well) brings the wheel closer to your tum.

I will let you know how it works with the seat rails back under.

Also being quite big means I'll need some more elbow room. Does a smaller steering wheel help that much?

As mentioned, this is a defender trait. But there is a solution...ish. Remove the centre seat and buy a thin cubby box (not the chunky Land Rover one). Fit it to the left of centre. Remove drivers seat and drill four new seat mounting holes 2 inches to the left. Re-fit drivers seat having gained 2" elbow room. You are now however slightly off centre. As nothing in a Defender lines up, or is that accurate it requires such inline precision this probably won't matter.

I'm told the TD5 responds well to 'chipping' the ECU and a larger intercooler.

Yes and no. Mild ecu remap or chip is fine but steer clear of big power offerings, they only lead to engine failure. Talk to Allisport who are the nicest people and won't rip you off. J Fearn is also excellent and oop t'north if you are further that way.

Is it really worth it? - No

With 50/50 Road/Off-Road tyres will I still be able to hear the finer points of ZZtop at 70mph on the motorway?

Yes. But you might need to go up to 11.

We hope to see you joining the Defender set soon, were you too can enjoy the likes of 'a pwer steering pump is only tuppence?' and 'you can fix it with a bit of tape and a hammer?'

[headhunter]

Hi Nasher

How's it on ribnet!

Mudrails did it for me as I am 6'2".

I have moved the handbrake to beside the driver's seat (using a range rover handbrake), This saves your left leg resting on the conventional handbrake. (you have do do away with the centre seat but can still fit a cubby box).

Look at a new 2007 Defender if you budget will stretch, they have 6 gears and are much quieter.

John

[Nasher]

John

Hi, I suppose there is a lot of crossover between here and Ribnet.

Thanks to everyone for the good information, and putting up with what must be regular questions from those new to Landrovers.

I'll no doubt make the mudrail type bars myself, but try to incorporate a shift to the Left of an inch or so as well to help with the elbow room.

Looking around my bugget will probably stretch to a 2 or 3 year old TD5 110 and leave me around £1K to £1.5K to make some mods.

I'm now saving up until the end of the year, but will be keeping a good eye on here for information and contributing when I can.

Must investigate the GKN overdrive.

How it works, where it fits, can I fit it myself, costs etc.

Nasher.

[TJ101]

Correct,, a few here, as well as ribnet

Re overdrive,, if i was keeping a defender for a while, it would be very near the top of the list

See This thread by JST, and to fit this one by Les

[western]

GKN overdrive fitting info in the Tech Archive, got one on my '89 200Tdi powered R380 gearboxed 110 I fitted it over a weekend