Daskoff Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I currently live in Moscow and am seriously considering the '07 Defender. I've read that the heater had been upgraded, but how is the Defender in really cold weather. I mean it typically gets to -30 C here in winter. Is it well insulated from a climate perspective or is the heater that strong to overcome the harsh winters? Or should I just wear more clothes?? The trucks will come on the Moscow market by the end of this month and I will definately take a closer look. Any comments would be highly appreciated. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 The old ones aren't, my 300Tdi (2006 model) struggles even with the weather around freezing, being a 110SW it takes a good 20 min for the vehicle to be reasonably warm inside and it is still drafty if you are heading into a strong wind, it takes longer if you are driving slowly or off road. I wouldn't consider it at -30C, but you may find that the new one comes with an optional engine pre-heater (Webasto/Eberspacher type thing) for cold climate versions. Cabin insulation is probably not much (if any) better than the 2006 ones and I can't imagine it compares in any way to a Discovery. I love Defenders but on a cold day I'd take my V8 Discovery every time for road use, engine warms up in 2 min, tons of heater output, superb demisting and a lot more insulation, as well as ABS and ETC. The new one might be 40% better but if so it is only 40% better than something which wasn't very good, which is a bit like saying "better than treading on a rusty nail" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 keep wearing lots of clothes gets my vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have run my 1991 model in -40 without trouble...... I have a lot more insulation than stock however. Nobody would be able to answer on the 2007 models as winter has not arrived yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 You could always fit a diesel fuelled heater, to any age of defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskoff Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks for the comments. I wonder if anything special are done to the ones coming to Russia i.e. "special cold weather package" or something. Does it really take 20 minutes for the engine to get warm? My commute is about 15 min in the morning.... Sorry for the dumb diesel questions but coming from the US, I never had a chance to own a diesel. Especially a Defender, BUT maybe Moscow is not a best place to buy (no wonder they are so cheap here) one..... Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRWOO Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I own a 07 Defender and as already mentioned 07 defender drivers cannot really say how well the heater will fair in our not so cold as your winter months. Saying that though the heater is extremely good and on the odd cooler day I have only had to set the temp on it very low to achieve a very warm cabin as where my 300 defender would hardly warm anything up at all apart from the heater unit it self. It's easy for me to say as I dont live in -30 but you need to consider more than just the heater, if you can spend 2 if not 3 times the amount on a new one oppossed to an old one then I would go for the ne wone every time thats why I did it. The new defender is absolutely fantastic to drive and is not too disimilar to the older models like the 300. The gearbox is great with it's extra 6th gear, I have had mine for 3k miles now and I have averaged 34mpg on every tank which is a big difference over the 29 I was getting with the 300. I did love my old Landy as with all the series I've owned but it was starting to become costly, new clutch transfer box etc. I never new the history from day one with my old 300 either which is another benfit from buying new, it's yours and you will know every but of it. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskoff Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well considering that during this past winter each morning I walked 15 minutes to the metro and 10 minutes on the other end in the freaking dead of winter, I’ve got lots of heavy Russian coats which makes me look like a wooly mammoth. So I guess if it doesn’t get scorching hot in the truck, I won’t freeze to death. However, being a diesel, is it bad for the engine to drive it for so short of a distance? I know for gas engines, if the engine does not warm up sufficiently, the oil gets contaminated quickly from all the unburnt fuel. I am sure it is probably the same for the diesel. Any other worries. As it will have to be parked exclusively on the street (Moscow is very congested, no garages, etc.), I will not have access to an electrical outlet. So, no engine heater. But, in summer I think it will be great here because of the high temperatures and lots of idling if one drives in the city. The country side is another story, talk about the pristine areas for offroading. Actually, that is why I am interested in the Defender…lots and lots of offroading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I've got an 07 Defender and used to have a TD5 Defender. As others have said we've not had any cold weather here yet but one of the mags did a write up of Landrover's cold weather testing of the new Defender and reported that it coped well (to the extent of the driver removing his coat as he was too warm). All I can say is that both the heater and the air conditioning are a big improvement over the TD5 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks for the comments. I wonder if anything special are done to the ones coming to Russia i.e. "special cold weather package" or something. Does it really take 20 minutes for the engine to get warm? My commute is about 15 min in the morning.... Sorry for the dumb diesel questions but coming from the US, I never had a chance to own a diesel. Especially a Defender, BUT maybe Moscow is not a best place to buy (no wonder they are so cheap here) one.....Adrian It probably takes about 10 min driving at 40mph ish for the engine (and thus the heater) to get fully warm in ambient temps a few degrees above freezing (that's about how long it takes me to drive home from the other half's house and it is usually just about hot by the time I get home) and it takes at least another 10 min once the heater has reached full output, for the large interior of a 110 to really feel "warm". I'm guessing it will be a lot longer in -30C. It is also a lot longer than it used to take my 90 to warm up the front passenger area, the interior bulkhead makes a big difference. In the 110 you just get the impression that though hot air is coming out of the heater, it is really just stirring the cold air in the footwell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskoff Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 It probably takes about 10 min driving at 40mph ish for the engine (and thus the heater) to get fully warm in ambient temps a few degrees above freezing (that's about how long it takes me to drive home from the other half's house and it is usually just about hot by the time I get home) and it takes at least another 10 min once the heater has reached full output, for the large interior of a 110 to really feel "warm". I'm guessing it will be a lot longer in -30C. It is also a lot longer than it used to take my 90 to warm up the front passenger area, the interior bulkhead makes a big difference. In the 110 you just get the impression that though hot air is coming out of the heater, it is really just stirring the cold air in the footwell! I guess this is a reason I might have to opt for the fully loaded model with the arse warmers.... Do you have any issues with driving such a short distance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I guess this is a reason I might have to opt for the fully loaded model with the arse warmers....Do you have any issues with driving such a short distance? Only that it is always bl&&dy cold in the vehicle and the demisting is cr&p!!! Many people here just drive round town most of the time (1 or 2 mile journeys) which is not good for engine wear. Defenders are cosy enough on long journeys (at least for the front seat passengers - you might also want to bear in mind that most don't have any warm air to the rear passenger's feet - I'm not sure about the 07MY it may be different on those) so people sitting in the back tend to get cold feet! I have never understood why Land Rover cannot make engines that warm up quickly when anything else in the world warms up in 2 min - I was in a Ford Ranger the other day and was amazed that the heater was blowing warm air after just a couple of minutes idling, you could leave a Tdi idling for 20 min on a cold day with the viscous fan removed and you still wouldn't get any warm air. I can't figure out whether the engines are just too efficient, whether the thermostat or circulation design is completely wrong, or what it is, but the diesel engines all take ages to warm up and always have done. I suppose what I really need is a V8 90 truck cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 If you really want heat in the winter, put in a Webasto or Espar coolant heater. Set it to turn on 30 minutes before you leave and everything will be nice and toasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I have never understood why Land Rover cannot make engines that warm up quickly when anything else in the world warms up in 2 min - I was in a Ford Ranger the other day and was amazed that the heater was blowing warm air after just a couple of minutes idling, you could leave a Tdi idling for 20 min on a cold day with the viscous fan removed and you still wouldn't get any warm air. I can't figure out whether the engines are just too efficient, whether the thermostat or circulation design is completely wrong, or what it is, but the diesel engines all take ages to warm up and always have done. IME, the warm up time is no different than any other diesel engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 IME, the warm up time is no different than any other diesel engine. Well I am on my third 300Tdi and have driven probably hundreds of others and they all take ages to warm up but the new (post 99 export spec) ones seem to take even longer than the old ones did. We have a Toyota Surf on the hire fleet at work which warms up nearly as quickly as my V8 Discovery, probably a quarter of the time it takes my 300Tdi to reach full "needle in the middle of the gauge" operating temperature, so it obviously is possible to make diesels that warm up quicker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskoff Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well I am on my third 300Tdi and have driven probably hundreds of others and they all take ages to warm up but the new (post 99 export spec) ones seem to take even longer than the old ones did. We have a Toyota Surf on the hire fleet at work which warms up nearly as quickly as my V8 Discovery, probably a quarter of the time it takes my 300Tdi to reach full "needle in the middle of the gauge" operating temperature, so it obviously is possible to make diesels that warm up quicker! Well maybe the engine being from a Ford transit van, I'm thinking that it must be sorted out nicely since Ford probably makes a ton of them and are used throughout the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well I am on my third 300Tdi and have driven probably hundreds of others and they all take ages to warm up but the new (post 99 export spec) ones seem to take even longer than the old ones did. We have a Toyota Surf on the hire fleet at work which warms up nearly as quickly as my V8 Discovery, probably a quarter of the time it takes my 300Tdi to reach full "needle in the middle of the gauge" operating temperature, so it obviously is possible to make diesels that warm up quicker! Well I have a 200TDI and have driven many. It warms up as fast as any other diesel I have driven (I also own a VW diesel). With a diesel, you need to do some work to warm them up and then it is as fast as a petrol. If you idle it cold, it will never warm up, plus it is REALLY bad for the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 You are mad to be considering buying a Land Rover in such circumstances. The heater is carp, the demisters are carp, the enginne is carp and above all, as soon as the temp goes below freezing, the door locks freeze up so you cant even get into the bloody thing. Buy a Volvo, they're designed, tested and proved for such conditions. Cheers Log Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chb Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Adrian: I've got the answer, log onto "you tube', search for the defender 07 and you will see a video on the testing done at about 30 degrees below, and furthermore I think the test was done in volvoland, it appeared in LRO in text, and they posted the video on you tube.....from the video you could just be ok. There are many things you could do to further speed up heating like cover the radiator with a curtain....as you mention a short comute.. cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here in Norway all diesel LR's come with a 'winterpack', that consits of a preheater (Webasto) and heated front windscreen. When I had a 300Tdi it would have been useless at heating had it not been for the Eberspacher I had installed. Another important point is to make sure you also have a good battery(ies). I wouldn't get another LR (diesel) without these items and I don't even live in the cold part of Norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muck Truck Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 My 1992 200Tdi warms up very quickly and the heater belts out heat . In Jan/Feb up in the hills of north wales doing some lanning surrounded by snow i had to keep turning the heater off as it was too hot. Ok its not exactly -30 but still cold up there that time of year. I do have a new heater matrix though, that would make a big difference as the old one was crudded up and only a small section of it got warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I wouldn't get another LR (diesel) without these items and I don't even live in the cold part of Norway. I think the point you're missing here, as are a number of the other replies is that the question was wether the 07 Defender would cope with the cold. As I said I used to have a TD5 Defender and that along with the 200 and 300Tdi Defenders wasn't up to the job - you'd need additional heating. From personal experience (of testing the heat just for the sake of it) and the cold weather testing that LRO reported on it looks as though the new Defender may well be good enough for Nordic climates. So talking about how bad the TD5 or Tdi engined models were is not relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskoff Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here in Norway all diesel LR's come with a 'winterpack', that consits of a preheater (Webasto)and heated front windscreen. When I had a 300Tdi it would have been useless at heating had it not been for the Eberspacher I had installed. Another important point is to make sure you also have a good battery(ies). I wouldn't get another LR (diesel) without these items and I don't even live in the cold part of Norway. I'll have to ask the dealer about the winterpak. I figure they have to do something extra for the Defenders coming to Russia. Otherwise you'd have alot of PO Defender owners in the winter. What's a Webasto? Is it some sort of an electric heater to be used until the engine is warmed up? I also saw the "you-tube" cold weather test and filmed from the inside (when driving) it sounded real loud, but then I thought that is was loud because they had the heater on high blast. 2 more weeks before they arrive. Could hardly wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I'll have to ask the dealer about the winterpak. I figure they have to do something extra for the Defenders coming to Russia. Otherwise you'd have alot of PO Defender owners in the winter. What's a Webasto? Is it some sort of an electric heater to be used until the engine is warmed up? I also saw the "you-tube" cold weather test and filmed from the inside (when driving) it sounded real loud, but then I thought that is was loud because they had the heater on high blast. 2 more weeks before they arrive. Could hardly wait... The same as an Eberspacher. A diesel pre-heater, bit like a miniature engine in itself that pre-heats and circulates the coolant. Usually set on a timer, on/ off switch, remote controlled. These run off the vehicles batteries and are independant of mains powersupply. Once the coolant reaches a certain temperature they automatically switch the interior heating on as well. So th eengine and the cab are warm when you get in the car. They use about 0.6L/ fuel/ hour + battery capacity. That's why you have to make sure the battriy(ies) are in tip top condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskoff Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 The same as an Eberspacher.A diesel pre-heater, bit like a miniature engine in itself that pre-heats and circulates the coolant. Usually set on a timer, on/ off switch, remote controlled. These run off the vehicles batteries and are independant of mains powersupply. Once the coolant reaches a certain temperature they automatically switch the interior heating on as well. So th eengine and the cab are warm when you get in the car. They use about 0.6L/ fuel/ hour + battery capacity. That's why you have to make sure the battriy(ies) are in tip top condition. Sounds like the device I need here. Do dealers install these, sort of like an option? Or is it something I have to find a local shop which I don't look forward too because I don't speak Russian, but the dealer does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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