FridgeFreezer Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 1 can anyone help with the definitive answer for the 2 wire setup idle control valve 2 also anyone post a starting map for a 3.9 disco 1 - What about the 2-wire idle valve? How to wire it? What settings to use? The ECU mods required to run it? Where to find them? 2 - Any of the maps on here will start & run any Rover V8, it's not critical. Obviously you do need to check the rest of the settings, it'd be no good having the thing set to fuel only and trying to run with EDIS, but I think most of the maps on here are for EDIS ignition too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerspeeder Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 1 - What about the 2-wire idle valve? How to wire it? What settings to use? The ECU mods required to run it? Where to find them?2 - Any of the maps on here will start & run any Rover V8, it's not critical. Obviously you do need to check the rest of the settings, it'd be no good having the thing set to fuel only and trying to run with EDIS, but I think most of the maps on here are for EDIS ignition too. as regards to no. 1 all of it. looked through the various postings, the wiring diagram is rather vague do i run 12 volts to it and then switch the earth via ecu? do i need to have an ecu mod? sorry as you can tell large learning curve at the moment most of it done just the last bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I have totally failed to get the idle valve working and have currently given up. It would glitch and jump about and screw all the other dials on Megatune. Now the whole idle circuit is dead so I suspect one or more components have melted. I have another ECU in build (for another car) so will try that when it is done. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 as regards to no. 1 all of it. looked through the various postings, the wiring diagram is rather vague do i run 12 volts to it and then switch the earth via ecu? do i need to have an ecu mod? sorry as you can tell large learning curve at the moment most of it done just the last bits There a chunk on it in here, pics of screen shots plus a download from Monswer Fridge for a get you running MSQ file. Are you using MS1 V3 029v in which case PWM value = easy, or MS2 = screams from Steved and others from what I have heard Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 as regards to no. 1 all of it. looked through the various postings, the wiring diagram is rather vague do i run 12 volts to it and then switch the earth via ecu? do i need to have an ecu mod? OK: Assuming you have the normal style of ECU mod (a TIP122 transistor) then yes you give it +12v ignition switched and ground through the FIDLE pin of the ECU connector. The mod itself may or may not be done depending on who you got the ECU from and whether or not you asked for it, and may or may not be wired to the FIDLE pin. Here is a piccy of what a modified ECU looks like - this is modified for EDIS and PWM idle: And here's what's connected to what (bright pink components are different from the BOM, white ones are not required / not fitted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I've read thru all of this, and have to say i'm considering it, i'm wondering though, why the aversion to running proper ECU controlled wasted spark? Surely these EDIS modules are next to impossible to get a hold of here in the UK, whereas using wasted spark means you can grab some coils from any old motor and chuck them in. Much do you think it would cost me to buy a kit, and the appropriate parts required for PWM idle and wasted spark running? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 ^^ Do you mean Coil on Plug, or Coil drivers in the ECU ? The Edis 8 is a fab bit of Kit rumoured $20 million R&D so beat coil drivers hands down EDIS8s are also cheap as I have not ever heard of them failing Coil on plug is a whole different ball game Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I mean running something like the Ford coilpacks (or similar ones from vauxhalls or whatever) but letting the ECU do the spark control directly, with additional drivers inside the ECU. Coil on plug wouldnt be too easy on the V8, thats more suited to multivalve engines where the plug sits down a hole inside the rocker cover. I know everyone in this thread seems to be advocating EDIS8, but if you think about it, plenty of people are running 'squirt on ECU's on engines such as Vauxhalls C20XE where fitting an EDIS system isnt really sensible, and using the 60-2 wheel thats already provided with the built in spark control. It would require the slight modifications to the ECU and the configuration changes, however barring these the maps and settings that people on here have already spent time developing will work just the same. I've had a look around for EDIS modules and havent found any, bar new ones at ££££, or imports from the states, and while i'm happy enough to throw on a used coilpack that i've picked up from a local breakers yard, it doesnt seem a good idea to me to be importing used parts from the states, regardless of how reliable they are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 The 'VB' type Drivers vs EDIS 8 see in this thread where people have tried and screamed and gone EDIS to get things easy to run. I look on MS as an exaar bit to help me with my hobby, MS isn't my "Main Hobby" so I want easy simple route to sucess. EDIS does this, VB Drivers is more towards the "Main Hobby" Route Sure it can be done, ...but the EDIS is a quick and simple route and cheap relaiable. As for sh parts, yep see your point - but - EDIS 8s are cheap from the land of "Hell yeah Boooy" its the postage / shipping that costs, so buy 2x or even 3x the units are cheap, postage is then barely any extra, then you have spares, although I doubt you'll ever need them, I have a spare, on board just in case, switching is just 1 waterprrof plug Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Any gen on the cost of a kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Go to EBay USA for EDIS 8s make sure they have the plug and pigtail, while since I bought any now Or speak to fridge who may have some EDISs and ECU etc / Harness convertors Scrappy for 2x escort modeo coil packs and leads to chop about and while on it a VR sensor and bracket etc Trigger wheel, unsure made my own but they are now about Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i meant more the ECU itself, rather than the extra bits for EDIS! Theres chat earlier in this thread about £150 for a kit, but i cant find anything that cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i meant more the ECU itself, rather than the extra bits for EDIS! Theres chat earlier in this thread about £150 for a kit, but i cant find anything that cheap! That's probably for a MegaJolt and EDIS8 (from memory MegaJolts are about £100 whereas currently an MS ECU from me will cost you ~£270 depending on mods & how many inane questions you ask me via PM before buying it ) Yes I have a big box of EDIS8 units I imported in bulk, they're not hard to get hold of, and they are very nicely made. I've not known one go wrong yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 by "kit" i meant the PCB, chips, resistors, transistors etc and plans so i can solder it up myself! still not sure if i'm going to go down this route yet or not, i cant afford £270, however £150 for a kit of parts i can solder up might be just about doable. Found one company offering a kit for £165 so far: http://megasquirt-uk-ltd.co.uk/store/produ...0a504f361e35a0d and this chap is cheaper still, but in the USA: http://www.glensgarage.com/catalog/megasqu...t-v30-p-30.html I'll read up some more on the EDIS vs Direct coil drive route before i choose either route too. I just cant imagine why direct drive would cause such an issue, when its now the favoured option as far as the developers are concerned. In the mean time i need to confirm my engine isnt about to expire and close the taps a bit on the carburettors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail84 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I've replaced the 2nd ECU with the original that's been repaired and the motor run's fine but when as the temp rises to just over 75c the gauge in mega tune for temp jumps around between 78 and 87. The fan's are set to come on at 84.8 and out at 79.8 so at the moment the fan's come on and off randomly. My brother is going to have a look at the temp circuit and see what's wrong. Jeff Quick update.... R4 & R7 2.49KXBK-ND bias resistors have been replaced so the temp sensors should be working fine now because as they jumped about it affected the fans and possibly a host of others that are connected to the general running of the motor. A test launch is scheduled in an hour but I'm 60 odd miles away working so kwak is flying solo so I hope it all works. Also when the engine was warm it hunted a lot so I'm hoping it's all connected.. maybe. jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail84 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Done this for another site but it might be helpful here.. The odd side are all straight across the plenum. The even side only cross No's 4 & 6. By the way the temp gauge is still jumping around even after changing the resistors... jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 By the way the temp gauge is still jumping around even after changing the resistors... I was going to say I didn't think it would be those which were at fault - sounds like an earthing issue to me, are the sensor earths connected back to the ECU plug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail84 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I was going to say I didn't think it would be those which were at fault - sounds like an earthing issue to me, are the sensor earths connected back to the ECU plug? The earth's are direct to earth on the battery.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 That may explain it then - earth the sensors back to the ECU plug and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistairolsen Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I was pointed at this thread by aragorn above (who ive been telling megasquirt is good for ages ) and Ive now read all of it! Unfortunately my application is a 5 cylinder engine (groan) so will need to run COP or something unfortunately. Just wondering if anyone (fridge) can advise on the mods required to the ecu to do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Hello Chaps, I'm about to try to convert my badly behaved RR Classic Auto 3.5 EFi (flapper / Lucas 14CU) to MegaSquirt / EDIS 8. I've read all the threads / info I could find, which took quite some doing and doubtless I may have forgotten some, so apologies if any of this has been answered elsewhere already. 1) Any reason I can't use the microsquirt? (I was looking at getting the trigger-wheels.com V8 package which includes it). 2) With a software / electronics background, the electrical side isn't worrying me too much (famous last words), but the mechanical bits ... hmmm. Specifically, mounting the trigger wheel. I've looked at the crank pulley assembly and I have the following concerns about the job: a) My pulley assembly seems to rotate slightly eccentrically, particularly the furthest element from the engine. Is the potential variation in gap going to mess up EDIS? b) How do I get it on and off without the engine rotating (automatic transmission)? c) Can I do it with the radiator still on there? d) Do I just undo the large central bolt and lever it all off? e) Won't the addition of the trigger wheel mess up the alignment of the various take-off belts and cause them to wear? f) Anything else I should know /think about? Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 Righty Hoi then, As the instigator of this thread I'll reply : You should get (but don't get) a medal for getting this far but you do have all our sympathies Nige Hello Chaps,I'm about to try to convert my badly behaved RR Classic Auto 3.5 EFi (flapper / Lucas 14CU) to MegaSquirt / EDIS 8. I've read all the threads / info I could find, which took quite some doing and doubtless I may have forgotten some, so apologies if any of this has been answered elsewhere already. OK 1) Any reason I can't use the microsquirt? (I was looking at getting the trigger-wheels.com V8 package which includes it). Use 029V MS1 V3 as you'll then get bucket loads of help from others here using EXACTLY the same system should you have any problems use anything else and you'll find it hugely more difficult... bear in mind V3 029v is pretty bullet proof/ prob free hence the recomendation 2) With a software / electronics background, the electrical side isn't worrying me too much (famous last words), but the mechanical bits ... hmmm. Specifically, mounting the trigger wheel. I've looked at the crank pulley assembly and I have the following concerns about the job: a) My pulley assembly seems to rotate slightly eccentrically, particularly the furthest element from the engine. Is the potential variation in gap going to mess up EDIS? Yes - it should be 100% true and not vary the gap on MS is "Forgiving" but there is something wrong with your pulley IMHO it its moving about, swap for a more "True" Pulley Unit b) How do I get it on and off without the engine rotating (automatic transmission)? Get the biggest rattle gun you can, and then get someone to stand on the brakes and lock it all up, either that or the socket / bif bar jammed againsy chaiis and starter trick c) Can I do it with the radiator still on there? HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA d) Do I just undo the large central bolt and lever it all off? "In your dreams " - unless you have formally done a deal wioth the devil e) Won't the addition of the trigger wheel mess up the alignment of the various take-off belts and cause them to wear? No, not if it all true and your pulley system seems not to be f) Anything else I should know /think about? Only the road your taking, ......the learning curve, ......the inability to not listen to something and then say "Oooooo I can get that better than that", .....the Fetish of having a laptop to record whats been driven ......and then look at it to "Tweak dear thats all honesty"....................... Doomed, your just plain doomed Nige Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 1) Any reason I can't use the microsquirt? (I was looking at getting the trigger-wheels.com V8 package which includes it). The injector drive in MicroSquirt would be marginal - we've looked at it a few times but it's more money than an MS and would be close to its limit driving 8 injectors. a) My pulley assembly seems to rotate slightly eccentrically, particularly the furthest element from the engine. Is the potential variation in gap going to mess up EDIS? It's probably a trick of the light or paint/dirt on the pulley, if it wasn't true there'd be trouble. The belt pulleys may well vary slightly, but you're not bolting it to those. b) How do I get it on and off without the engine rotating (automatic transmission)? You can use a hammer to jolt the socket round (your ratchet may not like you though) against the friction of the engine. c) Can I do it with the radiator still on there? Probably, if you can get a socket to it. d) Do I just undo the large central bolt and lever it all off? Yes, but mind the crank oil seal (a spare is about £1.50 so may pay to grab one just in case) e) Won't the addition of the trigger wheel mess up the alignment of the various take-off belts and cause them to wear? From memory, I don't think the addition of the trigger wheel actually moves the pulleys. If it does, V-belts are very tolerant anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 WRT the radiator/crank pulley..... I took the fan off, piece of plywood in front of the radiator, socket on, tommy bar in, bit of packing with some 6mm steel to get it to line up and flicked the starter -nut off, slipped pulley off. Job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landybehr Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 for trigger wheels have a look there: http://trigger-wheels.com/store/ they have EDIS bits as well. The V-pulleys (cannot tell for poly-v. But I think I´ve seen a sound assembly on PihilipRingwood homepage (cobra-replica)) are in front of the crankshaft vibration damper. The trigger wheel can be mounted behind the damper. This implies you omit the balancing rim because for both of them there´s not enough space. I have had my pulley with the trigger wheel (less balancin rim) balanced in a machine shop. (If you drive the coils directly - don´t you have to mess with dwell settings and such ? Sth. I know nothing about. I´m quite glad that the EDIS module takes care of all that ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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