lansalot Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Any chance of a copy of that diagram as well please, Jeff ? My stash of bits has arrived ps. thumbs-up for Phil at Extraefi.co.uk for making the wiring tails all labelled. Should save a bit of head scratching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Also, anyone know if one of these is suitable for use with MS1 ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AEM-Replacement-Bosch-UEGO-Lambda-Wideband-Sensor_W0QQitemZ330337831584QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4ce9ab4aa0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_1310wt_872 It's either that or ~£140 from diyautotune or something... Or something I can try and grab from the scrappies perhaps ? Failing that, can I get away with a narrowband one, and if so any recommendations ? For a 3.9 EFI (was Hotwire) system, by the way. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Narrowband is fine with MS. MegaLogViewer does some groovy maths to calculate AFR from a narrowband. I used one of these: eBay Linky. Works just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Definitely narrowband, I found some Bosch universal ones on ebay, and work a treat, for about £15 delivered IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Narrowband and megalogviewer - OK, that sounds good. However, does that mean mixture tuning can only really be done "offline" with narrowband then? As you're driving along, no laptop, does it still work so well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 OK 1st things 1st Its not a race engine, the tuning you can achive with a Narrow Band and a Laptop with MT and MLV is frankly beyond belief, and I know (BBC did it) that the results you can achive when he then shoved it WB and a rolling road was basically then told "wasting his money" - thats how good the tuning can be with pratise and effort, WB is the same - practise and effort, more expense and little gain over NB + MLV. Don't frankly waste your money on WB, you just do not need it - oh - also they break dead easy 2nd GTM 7002 Unipart for new £35 ish, heated 4 wire Lamda, else scrappy, do NOT try to use RR ones as they won't wotk 3rd WB or NB Lamda, you'll need a laptop for tuning, as to offline I have spent a day tuning a 5.2 Wildcat Rover V8 combo never left the car, just pulled over to read datalog, use MLV upload changes make manual tweaks, oh and pull in the stations to fill up He was chuffed with the results enough to pay me handsomely (I said if he didn't feel it was worth the days efforts he wouldn't need to pay a penny ) Its more about research, understanding, logical efforts in tunning and persistance that gain you a smooth enghine, not as to if WB or NB Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks loads for the in-depth explanation, it's very much appreciated. Narrowband it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Gents, Starting to pull my hair out here! Despite all your help I cant get my truck to run without producing black smoke. Not sure whats going on but I hope the following will enable us to get to the bottom of it: Engine rpm = 700 coolant temp = 137f Lambda 0.31 & 1.2 volts **** engine map = 96kpa manifold air temp = 69f spark advance = 11.5 dbtdc **** I know this value is incorrect, the sensor I fitted is a three wire with red, black & white cores as opposed to a black and 2 whites, could i have the wrong type of sensor? Lambda besides even if i turn the required fuel down to 19 or so it's still running ultra rich! Any ideas gents, getting to the stage where i wish id never bothered thanks for your help, mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtail84 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Any chance of a copy of that diagram as well please, Jeff ? My stash of bits has arrived ps. thumbs-up for Phil at Extraefi.co.uk for making the wiring tails all labelled. Should save a bit of head scratching Lansalot, here are all the diagram's that you will need. I also have 1 of Phil's ECU's and used these diagram's but not without lot's of problem solving from HFH & FF. You will need a good Msq to get the car to start and run so Fridge , Nige or myself have good starting Msq's coz without Nige I would still be trying to start the motor... You will not regret doing it once it's finished.. jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Thanks for that - I believe Phil loaded it with a default for 3.9efi already. Maybe tomorrow night I'll connect it to the PC at least and query it. See what's in there. Having taking several backups of the config first, just in case of any accidents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 If I recall you screwed up your MSQ tweaking and using MS2 and getting corrupt files ? This way all the sensors may be fine, but you settings may be wrong at a base level I can't rememebr what you have, but if you have MS1 V3 029V with MS SnE (ie EDIS8) then PM me you engine spec and e-mail and I will send you a know closish MSQ that you can then load and KNOW the total setting are right and it should run, if it then does not then we can all work out maybe why Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Nige, I'm embarassed to say I have no idea how to check what version I'm running, could you give me any info please? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Was the ECU built and supplied By Mr Fridge ? If so I know he uses M1 V3 029V as it is a know "No probs" version, and does all if not more than what we would require, and as such everyone here using a base system makes life easier, some of the other MS Systems have the odd glitch or 3, know fixes or plainly to be honest we don't need any of the enhancments So, did fridge build supply ?, if so ping me a PM with e-mail and engine spec, EDIS 8 I am sure if you have one you'll know, if you are "Pratting about" with Direct Drivers frankly I am at a loss to really understand why, as the EDIS makes life dead simple. Better people than Me and You have had a go with D Ds and have either taken it as a personal grudge to beat the gremlins and get them to work, or as others on this threadhave done (ie Rog, Istruggletogate11) said "Sod it" fitted EDIS and then grinned as it does the "What is on the tin" I have played with a number of MS varinats now, for tuning purposes I have several different versions not just of MS1 but MS2 and some of those variants too, from a tuning point a view I have to spend ages learning a - what are the differences b - the congigs and weridness / work arounds on some plus fixes, and c- as a result of this what would be easy and quick on MS1 V£ 029V turns into a nightmare. I have tunned a number of other MS MSQs for various engine combos, often supplied not through fridge and hence werid F versions, and the grief is huge, as such now I won't work on anything on LR4x4 than 029v, as its just a F nighmare in so many ways, I have to when people pay me to tune, but god I wish they just had read this thread, and did edis MS1 V3 029v MS SnE Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Cheers for your help Nige, PM on it's way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxen Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Wayne, I have a MegaSquirt to hotwire diagram for you that I will dig out. Thanks that would be very much appreciated. I also have LPG maps but I think you are a long way of before you need those. I'm always playing with my MS so when the time comes I will ping you what you need. jeff Yes you are absolutely right there. Om a bright note my box of goodies arrived from DIY yesterday............my first reaction was OMG what have I got myself into , now that everything is here. Question, the ms squirt n spark extra manual often suggests different circuits for the same modification i:e Fan control, what are the pro's and cons of these? As I understand it the mods I need are PWM driver, dual tables? and fan control. Does that sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Gents, Engine rpm = 700 coolant temp = 137f Lambda 0.31 & 1.2 volts **** engine map = 96kpa manifold air temp = 69f spark advance = 11.5 dbtdc I thought that most engines at idle produce somewhere around 30kPa mainfold air pressure? Yours at 96kPa is nearer to wide open throttle (~100kPa). Weird. *edit- used "idle" twice in same sentence. Too early for posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I thought that most engines at idle produce somewhere around 30kPa mainfold air pressure? Yours at 96kPa is nearer to wide open throttle (~100kPa). Weird. Not that weird, someone has a split, or non-connected MAP hose -what a numbnuts, who would ever do such a thing :whistles: :looksatfloor: HTH,Stuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ehm, When you say air pressure you do meen vacuum don't you? That's were I have mine connected... Please tell me I haven't connected the hose to the wrong place?! I getting a reading of 96 KPa at idle dropping to around 70 when I increase the revs, it's not the hose as I've just run another and it's just the same... Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Where have you connected it? I know people have struggled to get a good vacuum using, for instance, the old vacuum advance feed to the dizzy. Much better is from the other side of the plenum, there are three blanking plugs, one may have a vacuum connection, use this instead -it's a larger bore fixing as well, more suited to the MS pressure sensor. I'm sure there is a picture in this thread somewhere, if you can't find it I will post a pic of mine (currently in a cardboard box, awaiting rebuild ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 There is a tee piece that comes from the back of the plenum to the fuel pressure regulator & the over-run cutoff solenoid. You can ditch (disconnect) the over-run switch and steal that vac connection. Later Hotwire ones I'm not so sure it's there so just tee into the fuel pressure reg vac line, a screenwash tee (not the one-way-valve type!) will do nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Cheers Gents, I am indeed usibg what used to go to the dizzy. Would the KPa results I'm getting cause the issues I'm having or am I likley to have another problem? Thank again, Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 The dizzy feed is too near the throttle plate to give a reliable reading, that's why the manual suggests not using it I blanked mine off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Eh, Didn't realise there was a manual! No wonder I've had so many problems, how bloody daft do I feel now?! Where do I find said manual? I've installed mine just with the posts on this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I thought it had been mentioned before, but since it may have been missed... www.MegaManual.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ah... That would have made things easier when I started Thanks John. Any chance that can be posted as a sticky? Might save somebody else the problems I had... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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