200/300tdi Comparison

[Anglo-Frenchman]

Just weighing up buying a new 300tdi 110 CSW and wondered how it would compare with my 200 110 CSW? Any significant improvements that would make the swap worthwhile?

Thanks

Ged

[trainspotter]

Why buy something a bit newer that is virtually the same machine.

All you're going to do is line someone else's pockets and basically have the same motor.

If your 200 works and everything is in order then why change?

This engine is 16 years old and is still going strong!!!

[honitonhobbit]

Just weighing up buying a new 300tdi 110 CSW and wondered how it would compare with my 200 110 CSW? Any significant improvements that would make the swap worthwhile?

Thanks

Ged

Much of a muchness. The 200 has slightly more 'grunt' but is less refined. The 300 is slightly easoer to work on but is slightly less reliable. I would go on the condition of the vehicles and the mileage and take the engines as if they were the same. The 300 is likely to be fitted with the god awful R380 (my opinion and most definately not applauded by some).

[Anglo-Frenchman]

That's very interesting. I should perhaps have pointed out that the when I said a 'new' 300tdi I meant a brand new one with only delivery miles on it. My main interest was the noise levels and cruising speed but from the replies it would seem that any improvement would be negligable then. I am trying to avoid buying a TD5 becuase being a keen home mechanic I wanted sometihng I could work on - better the devil you know etc....

[Les Henson]

I would say as an on-road vehicle the 300TDi is the better. I don't think there's anything in it mechanical-wise really. Some things are easier and some are harder. Both engines are relatively easy to work on anyway, and prices for parts are cheap for either one. I would buy the 300 if it was me.

Les.

[Guest diesel_jim]

That's very interesting. I should perhaps have pointed out that the when I said a 'new' 300tdi I meant a brand new one with only delivery miles on it. My main interest was the noise levels and cruising speed but from the replies it would seem that any improvement would be negligable then. I am trying to avoid buying a TD5 becuase being a keen home mechanic I wanted sometihng I could work on - better the devil you know etc....

Having had a Td5 110 CSW for the last 6 years and clocking up 140,000 miles in it, i'd say that the Td5 is just as good for home mechanics than a Tdi. unless something goes wrong with the ECU, there isn't much else different on the Td5 than an "other" diesel engine, be it Tdi or whatever, it still has a turbo/pistons/water pump etc

plenty of people run 3.9 EFI V8's and they also run with ECU;s and engine sensors.

[Anglo-Frenchman]

Thanks Jim. Of course, you are absolutely right - my fear of the TD5 is completely irrational and perhaps I ought to consider it as a serious option. It's just that I once opened the bonnet on such a model and was horrified to be confronted by acres of black plastic rather than the familiar sight of rock rocker cover etc. Are have a look around and see what there is within my price range and then perhaps reconsider my options. Thanks a lot for your input guys.

Ged

[honitonhobbit]

Having had a Td5 110 CSW for the last 6 years and clocking up 140,000 miles in it, i'd say that the Td5 is just as good for home mechanics than a Tdi. unless something goes wrong with the ECU, there isn't much else different on the Td5 than an "other" diesel engine, be it Tdi or whatever, it still has a turbo/pistons/water pump etc

plenty of people run 3.9 EFI V8's and they also run with ECU;s and engine sensors.

I would have to agree with you here big man. The TD5 is very simple to work on. It's a tadge expensive but it's a fitters engine rather than a mechanics if you get my drift.

[western]

Hi Ged

200Tdi Defender version as yours is 107bhp & 188lbft torque

300Tdi all versions [except RR/Discovery Auto] 111bhp & 195lbft torque, supposedly has 208 improvements/new or revised parts over the earlier 200TDi engine.

mines 14 years old & still goes well, despite a new head/turbo last year, when i had the head off, i could still see the cross hatching on the cylinder bores, so it's in good condition

& just to say mine has a R380 box, much better than the old slow LT77, 1st one did 212,000 without faults until the layshaft bearings failed, new R380 is a Ashcroft box & really nice to drive with, R380 everytime for me

[white90]

Well until 2 weeks ago I'd say 300TDI-R380 a superb combination then..........

A leaking injector saw the TDi reach an early demise now resurrected after a rebore head skim etc...

R380 in mine is the second the vehicle has had in 144k miles

2 LT230s and 2 new diffs, 3rd required in the near future.

The 200TDi seems harder wearing I have no experience of the LT77 long term so can't really add to the above

[Anglo-Frenchman]

I have no beef with the 200tdi - as an engine it is unfailingly reliable and every moring I turn the key and away we go. A friend of mine once said about his Tdi that if someone told him to drive to Russia tomorrow in it he'd probably check the oil first but other than that he'd get in it and go and I feel much the same about mine. The only thing I 'd like to improve is slightly raising the top end and reducing some of the cabin noise. There are other niggling issues such as a bit of rust on the rear cappings and a rear chassis x-member that needs replacing but otherwise its hard to justify the change. Its just that I saw these new 300tdis and thought that they might be a bit more refined (quieter) and with the R380 a bit faster. of course the alternative may be simply to by a new LT230 box with a 1:22 ratio to get a better cruising speed or a GKN. We'll see. Thanks a lot for the advice NTL.

[JST]

I have no beef with the 200tdi - as an engine it is unfailingly reliable and every moring I turn the key and away we go. A friend of mine once said about his Tdi that if someone told him to drive to Russia tomorrow in it he'd probably check the oil first but other than that he'd get in it and go and I feel much the same about mine. The only thing I 'd like to improve is slightly raising the top end and reducing some of the cabin noise. There are other niggling issues such as a bit of rust on the rear cappings and a rear chassis x-member that needs replacing but otherwise its hard to justify the change. Its just that I saw these new 300tdis and thought that they might be a bit more refined (quieter) and with the R380 a bit faster. of course the alternative may be simply to by a new LT230 box with a 1:22 ratio to get a better cruising speed or a GKN. We'll see. Thanks a lot for the advice NTL.

you have at least worked out what improvments you want over your 200tdi.

i wouldn't have thought you will see anything significant if at all towards these changing from a 200 to a 300.

I woudl seriously consider a td5 to combat the above issue or as you say changing the T box or an overdrive.

i woudl go T box option if you dont do much towing or live in a hilly area and overdrive option if you do. Overdrive will also be of more benefit if you spend alot of time above 50mph. if your general speed is lower than neither will prob help as you will hold it in the lower gears longer with 1.22 box.

[Anglo-Frenchman]

Ta James. Most driving is on long, straight & empty French roads so foot to the floor most of the time i.e round trip today of 400kms.

Ged

[Paul64]

Ta James. Most driving is on long, straight & empty French roads so foot to the floor most of the time i.e round trip today of 400kms.

Ged

Hi Ged

What sort of speed are you talking about top end? I also have a 200Tdi. At the moment most of my driving is above 50mph and mine cruises comfortably at 60mph. How can you tell which T-box you have? Most other Defenders rip past me, so not sure if it is all this fuel tweeking, air filters and other stuff that makes the difference.

Cheers,

Paul

[Anglo-Frenchman]

I spend most of the time at around 110kph so about the same as you Paul. I have always accepted that if speed was my main concern then clearly a Land Rover (especially a 14 year old one) would not be a good vehicle choice. None the less I feel there is a some little room for improvement without throwing the baby out with the bath water!

With regards to the T/box, if you go to the Ashcroft website, there is a list of all the serial number prefixes which denote the ratios of the box. I think I'm right in saying that all Tdi Defenders start with 22D which denotes a ratio of 1:410. What you/I need is either a 28D (RR or Disco 1) or 32D.

Ged

[Paul64]

I spend most of the time at around 110kph so about the same as you Paul. I have always accepted that if speed was my main concern then clearly a Land Rover (especially a 14 year old one) would not be a good vehicle choice. None the less I feel there is a some little room for improvement without throwing the baby out with the bath water!

With regards to the T/box, if you go to the Ashcroft website, there is a list of all the serial number prefixes which denote the ratios of the box. I think I'm right in saying that all Tdi Defenders start with 22D which denotes a ratio of 1:410. What you/I need is either a 28D (RR or Disco 1) or 32D.

Ged

Thanks Ged,

My LR requires more of an overland setup so a little extra top end would be good. Also an annual trip from Transylvania to UK would be a little more bearable! I noted on the Matt savage website that a Disco T-box conversion is quite common for overland Tdi Defenders.

Cheers,

Paul