lucas starter motors

[Countax]

Both my D90 200TDi and my Triumph Stag suffer from the famous 'click nothing' problem, so i was wondering if they are the same unit.

Does anyone know what the lucas model number is for the D90?

Delco Remy do a replacement for the Stag that is getting good feedback from Stag owners as solving the problem so i am trying to see if a DR unit is available for the Landy.

Thx,

Nigel

[FridgeFreezer]

Try Sovereign Rotating Machines, they used to be Lucas and should be able to tell you if they're the same unit.

By the sounds of it it's the solenoid not the actual motor that's the problem, I had it too - the copper wears off the main contact (spark erosion in action ) and nothing gets through to the motor.

I suspect a solution would be to replace the contact with a decent bit of copper rather than some flimsy plated bit of steel, just as long as it's not a magnetically actuated part! (I think the plunger is the magnetic bit and it pushes the contact)

[western]

EPC tells me there's 2 starter motors used on 200Tdi Defender engines

Bosch ERR5009E exchange part

Valeo PRC5109E exchange part

Edited November 4, 2005 by western

[Countax]

EPC tells me there's 2 starter motors used on 200Tdi Defender engines

Bosch ERR5090E exchange part

Valeo PRC5109E exchange part

I thought Valeo bought the Lucas electrical biz? If so i would rather like to avoid that part as its going to be identical to the original Lucas part.

Anyone got experience of the Bosch unit? Is it proving reliable?

Nigel

[western]

My 200Tdi is I believe fitted with a Bosch starter, engine is now 260,000+ miles/11years old & the starter has not be replaced, works first time every time, so I'd say it's ultra reliable

just checked my Microcat, it tells me 200Tdi is fitted with a Bosch unit.

[Countax]

My 200Tdi is I believe fitted with a Bosch starter, engine is now 260,000+ miles/11years old & the starter has not be replaced, works first time every time, so I'd say it's ultra reliable

just checked my Microcat, it tells me 200Tdi is fitted with a Bosch unit.

Thx western. I will take a look at mine and see if its a Bosch.

Nigel

[western]

to help, happy hunting, it's not easy to get at

[landi41]

My 200Tdi is I believe fitted with a Bosch starter, engine is now 260,000+ miles/11years old & the starter has not be replaced, works first time every time, so I'd say it's ultra reliable

just checked my Microcat, it tells me 200Tdi is fitted with a Bosch unit.

Yes Ralph i'd call that reliable.....my Lucas model 3m100....... 2.5 petrol starter started playing up 2 months ago.

I've replaced the solonoid and am now waiting on a new drive.....the motor itself seems strong enough.. all that at 100,000+ miles.

Not bad really because when i first disassembled it i couldn't believe the mud and grit it had injested over the years from deep wading etc........... and then there is the heat, the starter and especially the solonoid is very close to the exhaust manifold......my parts book shows a heat shield but it is long gone.........and i read somewhere the Lucas solonoid dosn't react well to heat..............

[western]

Hi Dave, yours is doing well despite all the crud you found inside it

[BogMonster]

Tut tut tut tut Ralph you got a part number wrong

The starter motor that will fit most engines is ERR5009 this is the high speed starter and IIRC will fit all the diesels from 300Tdi back to a 2.5 (not sure about a 2.25 and I don't think it fits a 2.5 petrol or a V8; the Td5 starter is a completely different Japanese thing and is unreliable rubbish)

We get the Bosch ones from Bearmach to sell at work, ask for "Type B - OEM" parts and you will get a Bosch starter motor in a Bosch box, same part as a Genuine LR part (except for the price) right down to having a LR logo stamped into the casing!!!

[landi41]

Hi Guys..........

The 2.5 petrol and the V-8 each use a different type of starter than ERR5009......... and i'm pretty sure the 2.5 type starters, diesel or petrol will not fit a 2.25 engine.......... just been thru all of this........recently:)

Oh for the days of the old 2.25 petrol starter, never had one fail..............

[western]

Tut tut tut tut Ralph you got a part number wrong

The starter motor that will fit most engines is ERR5009 this is the high speed starter and IIRC will fit all the diesels from 300Tdi back to a 2.5 (not sure about a 2.25 and I don't think it fits a 2.5 petrol or a V8; the Td5 starter is a completely different Japanese thing and is unreliable rubbish)

We get the Bosch ones from Bearmach to sell at work, ask for "Type B - OEM" parts and you will get a Bosch starter motor in a Bosch box, same part as a Genuine LR part (except for the price) right down to having a LR logo stamped into the casing!!!

Oops got the 2nd zero & 9 in the wrong place, been corrected now

[Les Henson]

From my own experience Valeo stuff seems to be the poorest quality, clutches being what I notice the most.

On LR's where I have fitted a new clutch, with valeo the old ones are nearly always broken as opposed to worn out. Bosch are excellent quality, but you certainly pay through the nose for some of their stuff. Might be worth it though considering how difficult it is to change.

Les.

[02GF74]

By the sounds of it it's the solenoid not the actual motor that's the problem, I had it too - the copper wears off the main contact (spark erosion in action ) and nothing gets through to the motor.

I suspect a solution would be to replace the contact with a decent bit of copper rather than some flimsy plated bit of steel, just as long as it's not a magnetically actuated part! (I think the plunger is the magnetic bit and it pushes the contact)

some more diagnosis is required, if there is no click, then the solenoid is not getting power. Check wiring to solenoid and earth.

if there is a click, then solenoid is actuatling but either the contacts in the solenoid are duff (a solution for coppuer tubing!!), or brsushes in start moter or motor coil burnt out - from memory I don't think there is a fat wire from solenoid to the motor).

[Countax]

some more diagnosis is required, if there is no click, then the solenoid is not getting power. Check wiring to solenoid and earth.

if there is a click, then solenoid is actuatling but either the contacts in the solenoid are duff (a solution for coppuer tubing!!), or brsushes in start moter or motor coil burnt out - from memory I don't think there is a fat wire from solenoid to the motor).

Can you tell me more about the copper tubing trick as its a 'click, nothing' problem that i have. I get the solenoid click ( or is that really just the relay clicking in the fuse box that i hear?) I think its the starter solenoid that's clicking as its quite a solid 'click'. On my Stag i have taken the starter out, much simpler than the D90, cleaned up the contacts in the solenoid and it seems to fix it for a while. On the stag many owners have complained that recon motors bought to try to fix the problem turn out to be just a new paint job and the motor really has burnt out coils. That is why i was trying to avoid buying a lucas replacement.

Nigel

[02GF74]

the solenoid click is more clunky than a relay (you may or may not have a realy in the circuit; series vehciles don't).

Best to get a second pair of ears to listen for the source of the click; also the solenoid would draw quite a few amps - it may be possible to see this if you turn your headlamps on and they dim a little bit.

loose or corroded connections to the starter/motor/battery/chasis will create a resistance that will soak up the power going to the starter/solenoid.

before we discuss copper tubing, we need to pin point the problem. (especially since I was taking the p155! - sorry)

[MarkieB]

some more diagnosis is required, if there is no click, then the solenoid is not getting power. Check wiring to solenoid and earth.

if there is a click, then solenoid is actuatling but either the contacts in the solenoid are duff (a solution for coppuer tubing!!), or brsushes in start moter or motor coil burnt out - from memory I don't think there is a fat wire from solenoid to the motor).

I had one that, when you connected it directly across the +ve/-ve terminals [with a spanner, 'don't try this at home kids'] made no click, no nothing. In fact I've still got it, sitting in a box, so I'd be intrigued to hear how you diagnose that

[02GF74]

I had one that, when you connected it directly across the +ve/-ve terminals [with a spanner, 'don't try this at home kids'] made no click, no nothing. In fact I've still got it, sitting in a box, so I'd be intrigued to hear how you diagnose that

The windings to making up the electro magnet's coil or connection to the windings are no longer intact or the plunger is jammed. Measuring the resistance across the contact will narrow it to one of them.

[Countax]

The windings to making up the electro magnet's coil or connection to the windings are no longer intact or the plunger is jammed. Measuring the resistance across the contact will narrow it to one of them.

I was rather hoping that the copper pipe trick was a way to improve the conductivity of the contact bar that gets pulled across the 12v supply by the solenoid.

Given my experience with the Stag and the knowledge that taking out the D90 starter is going to a pain that might just not fix the problem longterm, i think i will try to get a Bosch unit and hopefully it will be a 'fit n' forget ' job.

Nigel

[02GF74]

I was rather hoping that the copper pipe trick was a way to improve the conductivity of the contact bar that gets pulled across the 12v supply by the solenoid.

Given my experience with the Stag and the knowledge that taking out the D90 starter is going to a pain that might just not fix the problem longterm, i think i will try to get a Bosch unit and hopefully it will be a 'fit n' forget ' job.

Nigel

do not dispair as in theory it can be done; I cannot tell you how since I have not done nor seen the inside of a solenoid.