Temperature extremes

[tpb]

Cold

I'm sitting up here in the great frozen land of Canada. We're being told that this may be the coldest winter in 15 years. Over the past two weeks, it's gone down to about -21C.

http://calgary.weatherstats.ca/temperature-1year-800.png

Yes, it's cold, and it's not even "winter" for a few more weeks.

Anyway, this got me thinking about my 2.5NADiesel. Ignoring comfort while driving, at what temperatures do I need to start worrying about my engine's ability to run? IE: how cold can it be before I need to install a heater of some sort?

Hot

Alternatively, if I'm operating in a desert (I'm planning a trip), how hot can it be before I need to worry about adding an oil cooler?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/images/...deathvalley.gif

Any specific recommendations for D110 gear are also appreciated. Thanks!

[T1G UP]

When i was in Canada they told everyone on th news to "plug in" your car when i was down to around - 18! This is a sump heater which keeps the thing above freezing.

I'd say you need one of those and fit an oil cooler whilst your at it as the thermostated variety will only work when upto temp about 80 deg.

[JST]

i dare say your lubs/coolant already cover the sort of temps you are likely to worry about, i would say -30 C and then get concerned over the engine running etc. personally if possible i would preheat the coolant and sump. the coolant anyway if cold and the sump if -25 or lower. try pming G-rover if he doesnt add anything here.

[Ex Member]

It "should" start at anything. I dead started my 2.5NA at -35C once. Give it a LOT of glow. Like a minute or more.

However, it is BAD for ANY engine to start dead cold below around -10 C as the oil is too viscous to get to all the bits in the engine quickly. IMO, everything should be plugged in before that.

See the thread on the 200TDI in the North American sectiono of LRA http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php?topic=366580.0 . There are part numbers for a block heater that will work. You could also put in a lower rad hose heater.... Actually, come to think of it, I have one in the garage that you can have if you want to pop over. I needed to take it out when fitting the air compressor as the belt rubbed on it.

One other thing... Make sure you have a fresh tank of fuel. If you have a tank from the summer, it will gell up and leave you stranded. Using some diesel fuel conditioner with each tank adds some security.

Your biggest problem is lack of insulation....at least when I saw it last. Make sure the heater hot/cold cable is adjusted properly to close the door in the hot position..... I drove mine this morning and it was +20C in the cab when I reached work.

Also....it is a good idea to have a wide range oil in there. 5W-40 as a minimum (Petro-Can Duron Xl, or Mobil Delvac 1) or a 0W-40 (Esso Extra XD-3 or Shell Rotella T SB). A 15W-40 (normal diesel engine oil) fails the SAE cranking test at -20 C. You gain 5 C for each grade, so a 0W-40 goes to -35 C.

Synthetic wider range gear lubes will also help everything else.

[russianfrog]

Hi there,

I use this thread to ask a cold-related question: It's been rather cold down here too lately (but not that cold, only -8/-10 celcius) and if I had no problem starting the car and driving, I felt cold on my hip!

Let me explain: When I turn on the heating (such as screen and low arrow), I can definitely feel cold air between the seat and the central box (replacing the third seat of previous versions) near the gears stick. I stuck some gloves or other things for the time being but I'd like to have your opinon about it. Did you experience such situation before and how did you cope with it?

PS: the bottoms-warmer is bliss when it freezes! A must-have in any sub-zero areas!

[discojmz]

gonna be a good year for the 'winter road' then, up the ingraham trail north of yellowknife and over the lakes!

thatd be a helluva drive!

[Ex Member]

Hi there,

I use this thread to ask a cold-related question: It's been rather cold down here too lately (but not that cold, only -8/-10 celcius) and if I had no problem starting the car and driving, I felt cold on my hip!

Let me explain: When I turn on the heating (such as screen and low arrow), I can definitely feel cold air between the seat and the central box (replacing the third seat of previous versions) near the gears stick. I stuck some gloves or other things for the time being but I'd like to have your opinon about it. Did you experience such situation before and how did you cope with it?

PS: the bottoms-warmer is bliss when it freezes! A must-have in any sub-zero areas!

There are access doors to the outside there under the seats. They must be leaking.

[alantd]

Land Rover recommends that you use 5W/30, 5W/40 or 5W/50 down to -30 deg C.

However, you might want to get sump heater for that temperature. Not sure what the top rating is but supposedly the same oil is okay to +50 deg C.

[q-rover]

q-rover here...

Sump/ block heater is the simplest, then you have the kenlow preheat. Disadvantage is that these need

220V and about upto 4 hours (for the block heater) use to have any effect. I have one on my RR and use it

as often as possible, even during summer. There is no disadvantage in using them, even when warm.

Diesel- you probably get sold 'arctic' diesel anyway, but teh engines are more efficient than petrol

so produce less heating capacity. Consider blocking off part of your radiator, or using a radiator muff.

Rad muff this will help the engine keep a reasonable temperature. I had real trouble with my

300Tdi over here during winter. Anything other than full throttle and it would start cooling.

Lubricants Make sure the first number (XW-50) is as low as possible as this indicates how thin the oil is at startup.

So something like a 0W or 5W would be best. If you find your engine is struggling to get up to temp(2nd number) whilst driving

maybe go down from from 40 to 30.

You may want to consider installing an Eberspacher or Webasto system. These will preheat and circulate the coolant

and then switch the cab heater on at a certain temp. They run off the vehicles 12V and fuel system, so are independant

of external power. Make sure your battery(ies) are up to the job though. Eberspacher also do additional internal heaters

that run off the vehicles coolant. But aren't much good if the engine isn't getting warm.

Consider changing the thermostat for one with a higher temp rating.

Next insulate the vehicle. I used 10mm camping mat foam covered in speaker material and covered the whole

ceiling and sides of the vehicle. This made a noticeable difference to the internal comfort. Try an seal as many

panel gaps as possible.

If you have any other questions just ask.

[tpb]

It "should" start at anything. I dead started my 2.5NA at -35C once. Give it a LOT of glow. Like a minute or more.

However, it is BAD for ANY engine to start dead cold below around -10 C as the oil is too viscous to get to all the bits in the engine quickly. IMO, everything should be plugged in before that.

See the thread on the 200TDI in the North American sectiono of LRA http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php?topic=366580.0 . There are part numbers for a block heater that will work. You could also put in a lower rad hose heater.... Actually, come to think of it, I have one in the garage that you can have if you want to pop over. I needed to take it out when fitting the air compressor as the belt rubbed on it.

One other thing... Make sure you have a fresh tank of fuel. If you have a tank from the summer, it will gell up and leave you stranded. Using some diesel fuel conditioner with each tank adds some security.

Your biggest problem is lack of insulation....at least when I saw it last. Make sure the heater hot/cold cable is adjusted properly to close the door in the hot position..... I drove mine this morning and it was +20C in the cab when I reached work.

Also....it is a good idea to have a wide range oil in there. 5W-40 as a minimum (Petro-Can Duron Xl, or Mobil Delvac 1) or a 0W-40 (Esso Extra XD-3 or Shell Rotella T SB). A 15W-40 (normal diesel engine oil) fails the SAE cranking test at -20 C. You gain 5 C for each grade, so a 0W-40 goes to -35 C.

Synthetic wider range gear lubes will also help everything else.

For engine oil, I'm running a 10w40 Amsoil synthetic - it was one of the few synthetic diesel oils I was able to find in town.

I followed that link about the block heater - come this weekend I'm going to try to track down a price. That info is greatly appreciated. As for the lower rad hose heater, I didn't know there was such a thing, but I'd love to swing by and take that off your hands.

[tpb]

Consider changing the thermostat for one with a higher temp rating.

I was following fairly well up until this. Why change the thermostat?

[Lars L]

I was following fairly well up until this. Why change the thermostat?

To get better heating. Standard thermostat for a 2,5 NAD is 82°C, i have used 87° for several years. Actually for Saab 9000 as they can be found in gas stations. Otherwise, 88° for V8 is fine. And yes, it makes a difference regarding heater output.

Blocking the radiator with a muff or similar is nothing I have found to be useful. If the thermostat is OK, the engine gets hot too. Coldest drive in my 110 so far is -29°. The heating was, err, doubtful. B)

[Ex Member]

For engine oil, I'm running a 10w40 Amsoil synthetic - it was one of the few synthetic diesel oils I was able to find in town.

See my list of oils above. IMO, the best choice is the Esso Extra XD-3, 0W-40. Full group 4 synthetic diesel engine oil. $23 for a 4 liter jug at any Walmart. A little cheaper at UFA stores (re-branded as UFA Polar Plus). I've been running it for a few years and the oil analysis is very good.

Any time for the lower rad heater. They are the easiest thing to install of any option. It worked fine on my 2.5 NA. The frost plug heaters are a nicer option, but may be hard to install, depending on access. I'm guessing they are around $50. Should be available (on order) through any auto parts store.

[Ex Member]

Coldest drive in my 110 so far is -29°. The heating was, err, doubtful. B)

What needs to be done is to improve the insulation of the vehicle. I have a very well insulated vehicle. It heats up faster inside than any car I've owned. I can easily maintain +20C inside the cab with -20C outside with the heater on the LOW fan speed in my 90 hard top.

[q-rover]

What needs to be done is to improve the insulation of the vehicle. I have a very well insulated vehicle. It heats up faster inside than any car I've owned. I can easily maintain +20C inside the cab with -20C outside with the heater on the LOW fan speed in my 90 hard top.

Thats, not difficult.