EAS

[Bill Shurvinton]

As the proud new owner of the truck that Fridge is desperately trying to get out of welding for me I'm quite looking forward to getting to grips with what the air springs can do. I have noticed that most people here seem to want to remove them and put coils on. Is this because people know where they are with coils, or becuase the EAS controller is a locked box that requires either huge investment in diagnostic tools or wallet emptying trips to a dealer?

As the trucks main use for me (as well as a tow vehicle) is as a demonstrator for what MS can do I am currently planning to try replacing the EAS controller with an MS GPIO board. From a first scan of the specs I have more than enough IO and the control algorithm is hardly onerous unless I am missing something. Not likely to happen immediately as, with all my projects work and kids slow me down, but hopefully something by the summer. I suspect this will end up as a bit of a curiousity, but if anyone is interested let me know and I'll track progress on the forum

Bill

[geoffbeaumont]

Bit of both, I think. My Range Rover had EAS, and the black box nature of it was a real PITA. The actual pneumatics work fine, barring old age problems like leaky seals and perished air bladders, all of which are relatively cheap and easy to fix. Even the controller itself would be acceptable with just one addition - a reset button. Land Rover still haven't learnt this...

However, a well maintained EAS system works just fine. They effectively give you a modest lift off road relative to a standard coil sprung truck and handle much better on the road at the expense of a harsher ride (LR did a much better job with the P38a system, which has a superb ride). On a single use truck I might well go for coils as they'll always be simpler and more dependable, but on a truck that does a bit of everything EAS does a great job of reducing compromise. I liked it, and if I'd kept the Range Rover I'd have fixed it up (it had developed a fault) not replaced it with coils. Then again, I'm not afraid of tinkering with electronics - that truck also had Megasquirt'n'EDIS, supplied by your good self.

It shouldn't be too difficult to replicate the functionality of the original controller - it doesn't do anything particularly complex, unlike the modern LR EAS systems, and it does it all by simply switching 12V lines. I'd check out insurance first, though - I could imagine this could take you outside type approval and make it rather difficult to get cover?

[jules]

I have a LSE with the EAS removed but that was before I got it I have however had loads of LSE's and this is the first with its air bags removed.

I've only replaced one air bag (because I ignored the faulty bag the compressor then over heated)

in 200000 miles and three cars with air bags

For towing IMHO I find them better than springs and the ocational time when you may have a little more in a trailer than you thing the car never looks over loaded which I like

But Off road if you don't clean them they do wear through.

Air bags are about £80 replacment and my replacment compressor was about £160 ish.(these are on my D2)

Most of the people who complain so much about them are the people that don't own car's fitted with them.

[David Sparkes]

Bill,

From the way your posts reads, you could well be a person interested in a privately developed reset system for the EAS. I've had no part in this, and don't (need) to use it, but I understand it's aimed at adjustment and fault clearance.

I see you are interested in an alternative complete control system, but on the other hand, if you have a cost effective electronic screwdriver, the need for a complete new wheel can be downgraded on your priority list.

The bad news, possibly, is that this system was developed for the EAS fitted to the 38A, and I just don't know what compatability the reset system has with the Classic. My understanding is that the EAS systems are closely related, so I do think it's worth your time investigating.

Probably the best route in for background reading is the Rangerovers.net Diagnostic Forum http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

You are interested in the EAS Unlock tool.

The EAS Kicker is a Blackbox Solutions product aimed at the same market, but the Kicker is now out of production.

Edited to add that this Diagnostic Forum was spawned out of the 38A Forum.

There is also a Classic Forum, which I haven't investigated, perhaps a Search in there for 'Unlock' might prove fruitful for you.

Done. This thread looks relevant; http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cvyko

If you have many hours to spare you could scroll down to the oldest thread and start reading from there, but I suggest you start with the posts at the top and read through those. You will probably have picked up everything useful and available before you are halfway down the list.

You will have to step round the occasional blood stain, but there hasn't been any fresh stuff for weeks, at least :-)

If the 'will it work on a Classic' question is NOT answered in your reading, then I suggest you Register with the Forum and ask the open question.

Alternatively, if you want to offer development expertise, then once you have identified the lead players behind the development, you register with the Forum and PM them to introduce yourself and your background. It's highly likely they won't have heard of your specialism.

The other essential reading is the Rover Renovations site (Shupak on RangeRovers.net) where you will see what alternative rubber springs there are for the Classic. There are useful written instructions available for download from his site.

Just in case it is not clear, I am in favour of the EAS, although my experience is only based on the 38A. People do change those out to coil springs, but I regard that as their problem, not mine.

Good Luck.

[q-rover]

I like the EAS and consider it a manageable system.

BUT it does need more care and maintainance than 'fit and forget' coils.

[FridgeFreezer]

replacment compressor was about £160 ish.

I picked up a pile of compressors for £5 a go at Sodbury, not sure which model they're off. Since everyone seems to rip EAS off they weren't in demand.

Bill - fancy seeing you here

I think the EAS without the ECU is just a question of switching four 12v solenoids to make each corner go up/down.

[jules]

I picked up a pile of compressors for £5 a go at Sodbury, not sure which model they're off. Since everyone seems to rip EAS off they weren't in demand.

Bill - fancy seeing you here

I think the EAS without the ECU is just a question of switching four 12v solenoids to make each corner go up/down.

Mine was a new with guarantee D2 one. I didn't fancy retrofitting the RRC one I have sat in the shed..

[Bill Shurvinton]

Hmm. IE at work doesn't like this forum. Curious. Firefox here we go:

Geoff: I am hoping to get the truck registered as a company test mule. As a result I think I should have a way around the fact that is it changed. but will be looking carefully into this. And 'that truck' is now 'my truck'

David: I've seen the Kicker. Thing is I want control, not just the ability to reset. I have the hardware that I can program myself so it seemed like a fun challenge to try and use it to prove the capabilities of MS beyond engine control. The read 4 pots and adjust until you reach the cal values is easy enough to do. Its the error handling that is more interesting as is getting more ability to control from the driving seat.

Lets see. I have to get the thing through an MOT first...

[FridgeFreezer]

Geoff: 'that truck' is now 'my truck'

And it was "Geoff's truck", small world isn't it?

Bill - your vehicle's history on the forum:

When it was Geoffs

When it was Zuz's

[Bill Shurvinton]

Yeah, that's what I said...

Only got about half the history so far, need to read more. Safe to say I need to keep up the tradition of making it better and better as a high bar has been set.

[geoffbeaumont]

So what state is it in now? When I sold it to Zuzanna the EAS wasn't working (controller disconnected with a major, unknown, fault logged) and the Megasquirt was sat rather untidily on the floor. It still needed tuning properly but apart from the table switching input from the LPG kit it all worked (if you get to the bottom of that I'd be interested to know what the problem was). There were gaps round the new boot floor and the exhaust Y-piece was split along a weld. Oh, and it was a bit battered down the nearside where my dad drove it into a ditch... Just needed it a bit of TLC

I still miss that truck The Discovery is much more sensible, and just as good off road, but it's rubbish on the road, agricultural, sounds horrible and it's slow. And just to rub it in with the price of diesel now it costs more to run. Worst of all, it's reliable - I've discovered it's was all the tinkering I actually liked about the Range Rover.

[Bill Shurvinton]

Well the EAS still isn't working, although as I have said I fancy getting GPIO to run that. As soon as I get the bits to fridge so he can get it an MOT I'll get it up to my hampshire hill and start on sorting the table switching out.

Zuz has done a lot. I need to fit the new tailgate and reaplce the nearside bits but as far as I can see it comes with almost a complete set of body panels. Heated seats are still bust, but who cares. Engine is sweet, to the point where when Dave Haynes put in on a trailer it he honestly thought it still had a 3.9 in there!

So hopefully it will get better and better over the summer. Mind you my westfield has been in bits for 5 years now...still with a se7en and a range rover I have nearly all the bases covered

[geoffbeaumont]

I've still got a couple of panels in the loft that I missed when I loaded it up for Zuz. From memory I think there's a nearside rear wing and corner in Ardennes green to match, and an offside front wing in Westminster grey but virtually new (came off an accident repaired truck that was scrapped shortly afterwards). If I can find the PM there's also another tailgate, brush painted white but apparently very solid, that was making it's way up to me from Honniton Hobbit - last heard of in Wales a couple of years ago so that may be lost without trace by now. Let me know if you want them - yours for the cost of shipping (or forum relay if it can be organised) if you want them.

Nice to know the engine is running well - it's never pulled as well as the 3.9 on the road, though. Can't really tell the difference at low speeds. The original 3.9 is still in bits in my loft waiting for me to get my finger out and rebuild it.

The heated seats were broken when I got it - they never made it to the top of the fix list.

As far as the EAS goes all the air bladders are fairly new, it's probably worth stripping down the valve block and rebuilding it as it's never been done and even if it doesn't have any leaks now it'll probably develop them before long. As far as I know the air lines are fine, but again they're original so check them over carefully. The EAS controller threw the towel in quite a while before I sold it - I just used to level it up by jumpering the connector every couple of weeks so it didn't have any major leaks. It's passed an MOT like this before - most garages would never notice the difference, so I wouldn't worry about sorting it immediately.

Interestingly one of my friends was planning to use this truck as a testbed for a replacement EAS controller (PIC based, not Megasquirt controlled) that he was going to build for a university project, so it has history in this area, albeit strictly in the vapour sense! Because I was fairly sure my insurers wouldn't like it it was going to be built with a standard connector so it could be swopped for the standard controller on the road.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

I picked up a pile of compressors for £5 a go at Sodbury, not sure which model they're off. Since everyone seems to rip EAS off they weren't in demand.

Bill - fancy seeing you here

I think the EAS without the ECU is just a question of switching four 12v solenoids to make each corner go up/down.

Did you notice Bill ................. FF didn't mention the word 'WELDING'

Come on Fridge.... do the man a favour.......

Ian

[FridgeFreezer]

And I thought you were on my side Actually I have mentioned it here.

I thought (was told) it was a body mount, it's actually the body support x-member which either means I have to weld upside-down, take the back end apart, or turn the car upside down. I'm currently voting for #3.

[Bill Shurvinton]

I've still got a couple of panels in the loft that I missed when I loaded it up for Zuz. From memory I think there's a nearside rear wing and corner in Ardennes green to match, and an offside front wing in Westminster grey but virtually new (came off an accident repaired truck that was scrapped shortly afterwards). If I can find the PM there's also another tailgate, brush painted white but apparently very solid, that was making it's way up to me from Honniton Hobbit - last heard of in Wales a couple of years ago so that may be lost without trace by now. Let me know if you want them - yours for the cost of shipping (or forum relay if it can be organised) if you want them.

Thanks, might take you up on the offer once I have worked out what I don't have in the pile of bits. Oh and once I have got it muddy for the first time , just in case I slide it into a tree.

Nice to know the engine is running well - it's never pulled as well as the 3.9 on the road, though. Can't really tell the difference at low speeds. The original 3.9 is still in bits in my loft waiting for me to get my finger out and rebuild it.

Well it will do me nicely for the time being until I decide to do something silly with it.

As far as the EAS goes all the air bladders are fairly new, it's probably worth stripping down the valve block and rebuilding it as it's never been done and even if it doesn't have any leaks now it'll probably develop them before long. As far as I know the air lines are fine, but again they're original so check them over carefully. The EAS controller threw the towel in quite a while before I sold it - I just used to level it up by jumpering the connector every couple of weeks so it didn't have any major leaks. It's passed an MOT like this before - most garages would never notice the difference, so I wouldn't worry about sorting it immediately.

One bag is going down over a 2-3 day period. So there is a small leak to find. But not a huge panic.

Interestingly one of my friends was planning to use this truck as a testbed for a replacement EAS controller (PIC based, not Megasquirt controlled) that he was going to build for a university project, so it has history in this area, albeit strictly in the vapour sense! Because I was fairly sure my insurers wouldn't like it it was going to be built with a standard connector so it could be swopped for the standard controller on the road.

Well as many insurers don't care about aftermarket ECUs, not sure why an aftermarket EAS would be a problem. I'll need to phone and ask them. Either than or just fit the new controller in the old case and no one would know.

[geoffbeaumont]

Well as many insurers don't care about aftermarket ECUs, not sure why an aftermarket EAS would be a problem. I'll need to phone and ask them. Either than or just fit the new controller in the old case and no one would know.

I don't know whether or not this is an issue, but it could be considered a major suspension component and thus outside type approval? Probably no worse than a lot of other mods people on here have done, but I know the NFU have said to me they don't really mind what I do as long as it's not performance enhancing or outside type approval. I'm not an expert on type approval...

[Bill Shurvinton]

I'll do some research. Certainly all the stuff I am used to playing with no one cares. I suspect footman james who do my kit car wouldn't be bothered, which is handy as nearly everything on that is not like any other westfield.