Standard Strong Axles

[chadler]

I know the collective forum knowledge on this has been posted before, but a search doesn't turn up what i'm looking for, which is this:

To build a pair of defender axles that use the strongest available genuine parts, and where neccesary limited uprated parts to fix known trouble areas.

The application: a 200tdi, R380 90, that whilst is an off-tarmac vehicle, does not compete in challenge events, but needs to have reliability as the main focus, think along the lines of an expedition prepared defender as this is likely what it will become. Please, this is not a thread about dana axles, massive one-off engineering solutions and so on, a much as i enjoy those threads! If something does break, it needs to be replaceable with an off the shelf part.

At present it's running 10 spline, front and rear, the front being d-reg origin, and the back having a 1989 (i think) disc braked range rover axle. It's all fine mechanically, but a bit of an unknown quantity in terms of milage, condition, wear, and robustness. So since the engine, gearbox, props and transfer box are new it would be good to have the axles up to spec as well.

no idea really what CVs and things are in it, i know that AEU 2522 are the strongest, will mine have these?

My thinking:

Front

CVs: AEU2522

Diff: 24 Spline standard

Shafts: ?

Flanges:?

Case:

Things that i've not taken into account:?

Rear

Diff: Probably an ARB in time

Shafts:?

Flanges:?

Case:

Things i've not taken into account:?

let the debate begin!

[JST]

Salisbury rear with ARB

Diffs 4 pin 24 spline

Personally if i as fitting an ARB i would fit uprated shafts though! or have lots of spares

flanges: std ones all pretty much the same in my experience

[chadler]

Hmm, interesting. I haven't discounted a (disc) salisbury as an option on the back. I suppose it's only availability and possible concerns about loss of under axle clearance that are the big put offs? Is there any quantifiable way to say how much "stronger" a salisbury might be over a 4 pin rover axle?

[Mo Murphy]

You'll need Ashcroft half shafts for the front as there is no standard half shaft that will go between a 24 spline diff and a AEU2522 cv.

Mo

[Lara]

You'll need Ashcroft half shafts for the front as there is no standard half shaft that will go between a 24 spline diff and a AEU2522 cv.

Mo

Easiest answer would be to just fit the whole kit from Ashcrofts, not expensive for what you get and what you get is "peace of mind in the knowledge that you have the best off the shelf parts available" Period!!!!!

Snap a standard one on a trip or outing and you would gladly pay double at the time for Ashcroft ones, Take my word, I would have saved shed loads of cash had I just listened to my head the first time round!

Lara.

20+ halfshafts later

[chadler]

Easiest answer would be to just fit the whole kit from Ashcrofts, not expensive for what you get and what you get is "peace of mind in the knowledge that you have the best off the shelf parts available" Period!!!!!

Snap a standard one on a trip or outing and you would gladly pay double at the time for Ashcroft ones, Take my word, I would have saved shed loads of cash had I just listened to my head the first time round!

Lara.

20+ halfshafts later

Ok. So to build, from scratch, a pair of ashcroft axles what would i need?..... I can feel my credit card quivering already!

[Mo Murphy]

I think your card should prepare itself for a nervous breakdown

Mo

[andyb]

With 'only' a 200TDi and no locked front axle I wouldn't bother with fitting AEU 2522 CVs with a 24 spine diff and Ashcroft halfshafts. Probably just go for a 24 spline front axle complete. Oh but the CVs are weak. Yeah but the diff (if 4 pin) and half shafts are stronger than the 10 spline stuff and I'd rather swap a CV 'in the field' that a diff or extract a broken half shaft.....also CV lighter and easier to carry than the diff or shaft and one item fits both sides.

If you lock the rear (which it looks like you are going to) then defo 24 spline and fit the V8 HD half shafts. Strongest half shaft with an LR p/n.

Putting a locking diff in the front axle is a whole different ball game with LR axles....and in that case I would give a different answer

Given the age of your front axle you may well have AEU 2522 CVs already. Best way to check is with the axle number off the casing.

Anyway, just my 2p worth

HTH

[Guest WALFY]

Ok. So to build, from scratch, a pair of ashcroft axles what would i need?..... I can feel my credit card quivering already!

I've just done this. I had an early RRC rear axle with an imperial diff, and the front was original for the veh, B reg 90.

I had previously fitted 10spl ARB. Broke a few CV's and shafts. Got fed up changing them. Sought advice from several people, JST, Gigglepin and White90 to name a few. Just because of their expierience with the kit and living with it.

My shopping list comprised of the following.

2x 24spl Arb, built into my diffs

2x HD CV's

Front 1/2 shafts

Rear 1/2 Shafts

H/D drive members allround.

I did toy with the idea with Pegging the diffs but at 200 a diff I couldn't quite stretch that far. Maybe that will come to bite me in the bum but I'm not so sure.

I spent just over 2K . But have clawed back nearly 1/2 of that with the sale of my 10spl ARB's. I now have piece of mind knowing that I have a bomb proof axle, within reason.

Ashcrofts became 1 of the speed dials on my phone. And a lot of my PM's were to Dave for a long while. Every question I had was answered with patience and in a language that I understood. A top bloke from a top company. And when I went to drop of the diffs and collect the rest of the bits, I even managed to fit in a workshop tour with the man himself. . Only downside I didn't get a coffee when I was there . Being serious now,if you want piece of mind then that's the way to go.

My reasoning for the spending was when I was doing a few challenge events if I broke bits it cost a fair bit of money. When you factor in a breakage of a CV. Strangley when I broke a CV I took the 1/2 shaft as well . So when you factor the cost of both those items, oil, gaskets, entry fee for a lost days competing, you don't have to break many CV's for the Ashcroft kit to pay for itself.

[Escape]

I agree, a kit from Ashcrofts seems to be the most logical solution.

If something should break abroad, you can always replace it with a standard item (which will be easier to find).

[JST]

I agree, a kit from Ashcrofts seems to be the most logical solution.

If something should break abroad, you can always replace it with a standard item (which will be easier to find).

apart form the front shafts as mo says.

what tyres and size are you running?

std 3.54 diffs?

if your on 3.54s and std gearing and 33" or less MT style then std 24 spline may be the way to go, dont forget people have taken trucks all over the world with this std setup for years, just settle for the later less strong CVs in the front.

If you have the above and want to go rear locker for the price of the shafts i would fit ashcrofts rears only. With an open front you wont need them - BUT they do give you piece of mind.

if you want AEU2552 in the front and a 24 spline diff you will need to run Ashcrofts front shafts as they are the only ones that will fit. (that i know of)

Personally for what you will be using the vehicle for stick with std and dont have a rear locker, a rear locker will just mean you will drive sections/routes that you would otherwise bypass and having it means stronger parts/more spares needed.

[JST]

Sorry i forgot to add, if anything from Ashcrofts breaks i reckon they will get you a replacment one in the 5yr guarantee where ever you are quicker than a normal spare anyway!

[Night Train]

Personally for what you will be using the vehicle for stick with std and dont have a rear locker, a rear locker will just mean you will drive sections/routes that you would otherwise bypass and having it means stronger parts/more spares needed.

This is what I was thinking. Much has been done with a bog standard vehicle that has nothing that can't be repaired/replaced in the bush. It really depends on what you are going to do and what you are carrying or towing along the way. Also whether or not you are out to push yourself and your vehicle to the limits or just to get from A-B as safely and securely as possible.

If you are tempted to try that big drop and rocky section because it might be fun then start digging deep for funding for those modified parts. If you'd rather drive around it, and then keep on driving, then good standard parts and set up should do.

[Lara]

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/category_9.html

Voila

Lara.

[Escape]

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/category_9.html

Voila

Lara.

They 're just lucky you never tried their half shafts!

Filip

[chadler]

this is all really constructive stuff guys, thanks. I think that 24 spline all round will be my intention in the long run, and i certainly have no burning desire to put a locker in the front, but having driven in a lot of scenarios around the world in quite a variety of vehicles i've come to appreciate the assistance a rear locker can make, and plus i rather like the idea of one! At the moment i'm running 7.50 R16 trac edges, which have served me very well but are coming to the end of their life so i'll go for probably a BFG MT style in a comparable size, but certainly not monsters. I'll try and get the front axle number so we can work out if it's running the CVs.

Is there any reason, can't think that there should be, why you shouldn't run 24 spline in one axle with 10 in the other for a while, rather than having to spend out on both at the same time?

I can only echo the comments made about Dave Ashcroft and his team, who have just supplied me with new gear and transfer boxes, somehow it's not a hardship spending money when you appreciate and respect the knowledge, helpfulness and service that such an engineering firm delivers.

[JST]

MTs and rear locker - on std parts (going back to the original post) - have fun then, i snapped a front shaft with Mts and no locker and it wasn't aggressive driving either

surely going from trac edges to MTs is almost the same advantage as a trac edge with a locker?

i see no reason why you cant run 10 front and 24 rear as long as they are the same ratios.

[andyb]

i see no reason why you cant run 10 front and 24 rear as long as they are the same ratios.

I did for a while in the Disco. Fitted a 24 spline rear first......lost a heck of a lot of drivetrain slack doing that as well

[Henry Webster]

If you are not going mad with tyres or lockers then there's not much wrong with either 10 or 24 spline standard axles in my opinion, especially if they are well serviced.

I have competed in the Hillrally championship in the last four years with no drive train issues using an open 24-spline 2pin front set-up with standard components and a truetrac in the back with Ashcroft shafts, although I reckon that if regularly inspected and appropriately 'lifed' standard shafts would be fine!

What we do is pretty extreme and well beyond the design parameters of the car, but we have had very few issues using largely standard bits.

H

[lensen639]

Tyres are the biggest problem,.. My dad has killed a diff and a CV with his 36" Simex

[Escape]

MTs and rear locker - on std parts (going back to the original post) - have fun then, i snapped a front shaft with Mts and no locker and it wasn't aggressive driving either

surely going from trac edges to MTs is almost the same advantage as a trac edge with a locker?

i see no reason why you cant run 10 front and 24 rear as long as they are the same ratios.

IIRC, some late Classics were even supplied with 24-splines rear and 10-splines front as standard. So there shouldn't be any problems, as long as the diff-ratio's are identical off course.

Before switching to Ashcrofts, I used standard TD5 halfshafts and CVs with front and rear ARB lockes and 255 MTs. When replacing, everything was in mint condition and is now being used by a mate in his Detroit equiped Bobtail on 34" Simex. So you shouldn't underestimate the standard 24-splines. But if you need to upgrade anyway, Ashcrofts is definitely a safe bet.